Steve: re: your upcoming book on Views of Hell

[RickC]

Hello Steve,

I wasn't listening closely on TNP radio from about a week or so ago but heard you announce your upcoming book on Views of Hell.

Will it be in the general format of your "3 Views" lectures?
And will it have anything about Purgatory?
(as it's (sort of) a "4th view," somewhere between universalism and the other views).
Will you be taking any position?
(or just give the arguments, pro & con, of each view and let the reader decide)?
Lastly, I'm curious if things posted in forum topics and debates might be included?
(or will it be stuff from 'pro-theologians' only)?

Enuf Questions: Thanks,

P.S. I could have called you on the radio about this.
But as you can see, so many questions, I'd have eaten up the whole hour!

[steve]

I do not intend to positively champion any position, though my suspicions about the inadequacy of the traditional view should be obvious enough.

It does not seem possible to simply put the three views in parallel columns, as I did with Revelation. I suspect that there will be one chapter for each view, followed by individual chapters critical of each view. I am currently in my research stage (I am drawing quotes from about thirty books, which I am reading in their entirety. Obviously, there is much repetition form book to book, but I want to represent the full range of arguments from a large number of authorities. Once I have collected all my data, I will decide on the actual structure of my book.

I do not intend to bring the doctrine of purgatory into the picture. This was done (to the detriment of the book, in my opinion) in the book "Four Views on Hell." The book left out Universalism altogether, and included a Catholic writer on purgatory. The two are not at all the same, since Catholics believe in the traditional view of hell, and do not believe anything like Universalism.

As for the inclusion of material from this forum...I might do so, if it is useful. However, if the points made by persons on the forum are identical to those made by scholars in books, I will probably use the ones from books for the benefit of author name-recognition. There's been some good stuff posted here. I will definitely be looking through it all again. This project is going to be time-consuming. So far, I have read about ten books, and collected more than 120 type-written pages of quotes from them.

[darinhouston]

I think it really does seem to be related in the minds of most "laymen" (at least in their own curiosities about the non-Heaven afterlife in general). If I were reading such a book, I would at least appreciate a note in an afterward or footnote to explain the concept in very general terms along with an explanation of why it wasn't included. Perhaps, a somewhat detailed discussion in an afterward of related but different concepts in the afterlife such as heaven and the new earth (not clouds and angels with wings) and purgatory would be a nice touch, depending on length.

[TK]

hey steve- let's get cracking on that book. it sounds great. i know about 10 people right off the top of my head who need a copy.

TK

[Paidion]

I do not intend to bring the doctrine of purgatory into the picture. This was done (to the detriment of the book, in my opinion) in the book "Four Views on Hell." The book left out Universalism altogether, and included a Catholic writer on purgatory. The two are not at all the same, since Catholics believe in the traditional view of hell, and do not believe anything like Universalism.

Do not they who subscribe to the universal reconciliation of all people simply believe in "one big purgatory"? It is my guess that the Catholic concept of purgatory had its origin in the UR beliefs of the early church. The Catholics didn't simply reject that belief but integrated it with the newer concept which Augustine promoted, that of eternal torment for the lost .

[steve]

It has occurred to me as a possibility. Augustine is the father of Roman Catholicism, and his views on hell became RC orthodoxy, but perhaps the arguments for universal reconciliation seemed to have too much force to be cast aside entirely. The result could have been such a compromise as we find in the purgatory doctrine.

The main difference between purgatory and universalism is, of course, the former still affirms a hell of eternal torment for those who will be damned. None of the damned ever go to purgatory. It is the place for people who will eventually go to heaven, but are not good enough to be admitted at the point of death. Thus purgatory is like a cleansing bath that people on their way to God's house must take before they can be admitted, but it is not an opportunity for those who are not on their way to heaven, and does not offer the damned any opportunity to be purged or to repent. Their doom is sealed at death.

The doctrine of purgatory, therefore, does not affirm that all will be redeemed, or that hell will ever be vacant at any time in the eternal future. It only affirms that most "Christians" can't get to heaven without a season of purging in the fires of heaven's annex.

This is an entirely different vision of final outcomes from that of universalism, but is essentially the same as the traditional view among Protestants, except that the latter see no reason to purge the saints after death and prior to their entry into heaven.

[Paidion]

This is an entirely different vision of final outcomes from that of universalism, but is essentially the same as the traditional view among Protestants, except that the latter see no reason to purge the saints after death and prior to their entry into heaven.

Correct. Or alternately, one could say that it is essentially the same version (for those requiring correction and purification) as the UR view except that the latter see no reason to send most people to eternal torment, for all will sooner or later choose to repent and submit to Christ if given the opportunity.

So it seems that the Catholic version differs from the Protestant version by allowing some of those who are not ready for heaven to be purged, rather than sending them all to eternal torment ---- while it differs from the UR view by sending most who are not ready for heaven to eternal torment, rather than allowing them all to be purged.