Consulting or calling up the dead

TK · Post by TK » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:51 pm

nothing, just a digression. i am not a strict abider by forum etiquette and rules, admittedly.

TK

RND · Post by **RND** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:44 pm

Paidion · Post by **Paidion** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:30 pm

TK wrote:I don't quite get that one. seems like a rather barbaric way of getting the woman you desire, since apparently the girl cannot refuse the marriage. Not sure why the remedy here is not simply to stone the rapist. of course, if the passage really isnt talking about rape but a consensual situation, then it is more understandable. but a few versions say "rape" and other versions say "seizes her." it sounds as if it is talking about a forced situation.

I'm not sure that it's a "rather barbaric way of getting the woman you desire, since apparently the girl cannot refuse the marriage". Rather it's a punishment for the man, since he must live with this girl for the rest of his life. This was probably a momentary desire for a beautiful maiden, but he probably didn't know her as a person. She probably wasn't the one with whom he wanted to spend the rest of his life. But now he's stuck with her, and he has to pay her father besides.

As for stoning ... well, let's face it . There seems to be a double standard in the Old Testament. If a woman had any man other than her husband she was to be stoned to death. But a man could have many wives as well as concubines, and could even consort with prostitutes with no punishment whatever.

steve7150 · Post by **steve7150** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:56 pm

TK wrote:
I don't quite get that one. seems like a rather barbaric way of getting the woman you desire, since apparently the girl cannot refuse the marriage. Not sure why the remedy here is not simply to stone the rapist. of course, if the passage really isnt talking about rape but a consensual situation, then it is more understandable. but a few versions say "rape" and other versions say "seizes her." it sounds as if it is talking about a forced situation.

If i remember correctly the father could keep the money but refuse the marriage of his daughter as head of the house, back in the day.

steve7150 · Post by **steve7150** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:01 pm

I know we have talked about this numerous times but i think Paul thought he would with the Lord upon his death and so did Stephen "Lord Jesus i commend my spirit to you" as he was being stoned to death.
All the scripture about the dead sleeping were before the resurrection of Christ.

TK · Post by TK » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:12 am

steve7150 wrote:TK wrote:
I don't quite get that one. seems like a rather barbaric way of getting the woman you desire, since apparently the girl cannot refuse the marriage. Not sure why the remedy here is not simply to stone the rapist. of course, if the passage really isnt talking about rape but a consensual situation, then it is more understandable. but a few versions say "rape" and other versions say "seizes her." it sounds as if it is talking about a forced situation.

If i remember correctly the father could keep the money but refuse the marriage of his daughter as head of the house, back in the day.

well, if thats the case it certainly makes more sense.

TK

Paidion · Post by **Paidion** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:08 pm

Steve7150 you wrote:All the scripture about the dead sleeping were before the resurrection of Christ.

All of the scripture?

Look! I'm telling you a secret. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed....
1 Corinthians 15:51
.........................................................................................................
After saying these things, [Jesus] said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him.”

The disciples said to him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.”

Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus has died..." John 11:11-14

steve7150 · Post by **steve7150** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:13 pm

All of the scripture?

Look! I'm telling you a secret. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed....
1 Corinthians 15:51

Paidion, You know Paul made other statements that sound like he believed his "spirit" would be absent from his body and present with the Lord and he would rather depart and be with Christ , just as Stephen said "Lord Jesus receive my spirit." Therefore our difference of opinion comes from the fact that you see the soul as a single body unit and i think the spirit or inner man is a distinct entity apart from the body.

RND · Post by **RND** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:41 pm

steve7150 wrote:Therefore our difference of opinion comes from the fact that you see the soul as a single body unit and i think the spirit or inner man is a distinct entity apart from the body.

Greeks, Babylonians, Persians, Phoenicians, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Egyptians and most other religions believed the same thing. Does that make Christianity more like paganism from where these beliefs stem from?

Does this "inner man" live forever? If so, was Satan right in Genesis 3:4?

steve7150 · Post by **steve7150** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:01 pm

Greeks, Babylonians, Persians, Phoenicians, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Egyptians and most other religions believed the same thing. Does that make Christianity more like paganism from where these beliefs stem from?

I'm only interested in Paul and Stephen's statements, so if it sounds like paganism then speak to them.

The Narrow Path Ministries

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