Questions about tithing

[Guest]

Damon should be able to answer this one for me. :)
I also hope to hear from everyone that has a response to this.

I hear Malichi 3 quoted as a reason for Christian to tithe 10% to the local church they attend, equating the church with the temple storehouse.

I have also read from many places that there are 3 tithes under the law, not one. A tithe (tenth) goes solely to the Levites, who then take a tenth of that tithe to the storehouse. (Num 18:20+ & Neh 10:38)

From what I understand, the second yearly tithe was brought to Jerusalem for the festivals which accompanied the numerous gatherings. It was eaten by Israelites in addition to the Levites which the first tithe did not allow for, since all of it went to the Levites. Wereas this tithe was consumed by all in celebration. (Deut. 14:23)

Then an additional tithe was taken up every third year and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within your gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied (Deuteronomy 14:28-29)

Some people say there was one tithe, some say two, some say three for a total of 23 1/3 a year.

Give me clarity.

[Guest]

Damon should be able to answer this one for me.

Oh, gee, go ahead and put me on the spot. ;-p

Seriously, though, tithing is not normally a subject I'm interested in, but I have studied into it in the past. I'll share with you what I've come up with thus far.

There have been many studies on tithing, some reasonably good and some pretty sketchy and sparse on facts. They tend to fall all over the spectrum on whether Christians should or should not tithe, how much, is it an obligatory thing, etc. So let me try to be as complete as I can with the facts, and bear with me for being a little verbose.

As most know, the first recorded instance of tithing is found in Genesis 14, where Abram gives a "tenth" - the literal meaning of the Hebrew word "tithe" - to Melchizedek. Now, we have no recorded legal context for this act. There's no law that we can look to to say that Abram was simply obeying God's command. Contrariwise, we can say that what Abram did honored God, and that it certainly didn't go against His will.

The tithing commands are found in the Mosaic Law, pertaining to Israel. Their stated purpose was threefold:

1. To provide for the physical needs of the priests whose duty it was to provide for the spiritual needs of the people.
2. To provide for keeping the Feast of Tabernacles, a harvest festival which took place in the fall.
3. To provide for the needs of the poor in the land.

Doing the numbers (which I won't do here), one can easily see that three tithes - 30% of one's income (be it in the form of sheep, grain, or something else) - would result in a huge Feast of Tabernacles offering, part of which it was the responsibility of the person and his family to eat during this eight-day feast. There just ain't no way.

For this, as well as for other technical reasons which I'd prefer not to go into here (since I'm at work and my reference books are at home), there never were three separate tithes, originally. There was only a single tithe with three distinct uses.

However, this began to change during the Intertestamental period, which lasted from the time of the last Old Testament prophets who returned from the Babylonian Exile until the time of Jesus. We begin to see in the Jewish literature a calling for three separate tithes as opposed to one tithe. (By the way, that's one of the factors which allows us to date books like Tobit, which is found in the Catholic canon of biblical books, to the Intertestamental period, since this book mentions three separate tithes.)

By the time of Christ, the issue of tithing had become quite a contentious one, especially because the priesthood in power often abused the money that they were given in tithes.

There was also a contentious issue with paying taxes to Caesar. The Romans considered paying taxes to Caesar to be a form of worship, which would put it on a par with tithing. So there were two extremist groups at the time which took opposing positions on this issue. There were the Herodians who believed in paying taxes to Caesar and looked down on those who consciensciously refused to do so. And, there were some of the Pharisees who refused to pay taxes to Caesar because to them, it was a form of idolatry.

Jesus' simple response was, "Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar [e.g., taxes] and give to God what belongs to God [e.g., worship]." (Mat. 22:15-22) In other words, Jesus didn't take an extremist position on this issue. That becomes very important in addressing the issue of tithing.

The book of Malachi shows that even immediately after the return from Babylonian exile, there were issues with the abuse of tithes. Then the people - who were carnal themselves as well - decided to hell with it, and stopped paying their tithes. In Malachi 3:8-12, God wasn't just angry with the people who weren't paying their tithes, but also with the priests who were abusing the tithes and causing the people to stumble in the first place. So, ministers who use this verse as a guilt trip to get the laity to tithe to them should be seriously examining themselves as well.

To begin wrapping up, your question was how should we view tithing today? Well, let's go back to the first use of tithes, as commanded in the Mosaic Law:

1. To provide for the physical needs of the priests whose duty it was to provide for the spiritual needs of the people.

Paul makes a very compelling statement that the laity were not only responsible, but obligated by God to provide for the physical needs of those who ministered spiritually to them. (1 Cor. 9:11 in the context of the whole chapter.) Furthermore, this theme of providing for the physical needs of the ministry was referred to as doing "according to the commandment" - that is, of tithing - in the early church. This is recorded in the Didache, a first century historical account of the early church and how it functioned:

***

Chapter 13

But every true prophet who is willing to dwell among you is worthy of his food [that is, his physical needs]. Likewise, a true teacher is himself worthy of his food, even as is a workman. Therefore, take the firstfruits [the first and best] of every produce of the wine-press and threshing-floor, of oxen and sheep, and give it to the prophets, since they are your chief priests. But if [the local congregation] doesn't have a prophet, give it to the poor.

If you make a feast, give the firstfruits of it according to the commandment. In the same manner, when you open a jar of wine or of oil, take the firstfruits and give it to the prophets. Also take the firstfruits of money, of clothes, and of every possession, as it seems reasonable to you, and give it according to the commandment.

***

Most of the local congregations were led by prophets in the first century, and that's what this chapter of the Didache is referring to.

Anyway, I hope that answers your questions about tithing. Let me know if you still have questions, though.

Damon

[Guest]

Here is a New Testament instruction regarding giving. There is no mention of tithing here.

2 Cor 9:6-8
6Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.

Todd

[Guest]

Right, Todd, but I hope you didn't confuse 2 Cor. 9 with 1 Cor. 9, which I cited above.

Okay?

Damon

[Guest]

Damon should be able to answer this one for me.

The tithing commands are found in the Mosaic Law, pertaining to Israel. Their stated purpose was threefold:

1. To provide for the physical needs of the priests whose duty it was to provide for the spiritual needs of the people.
2. To provide for keeping the Feast of Tabernacles, a harvest festival which took place in the fall.
3. To provide for the needs of the poor in the land.

Doing the numbers (which I won't do here), one can easily see that three tithes - 30% of one's income (be it in the form of sheep, grain, or something else) - would result in a huge Feast of Tabernacles offering, part of which it was the responsibility of the person and his family to eat during this eight-day feast. There just ain't no way.

I can see that, but how do you account for the fact that the tithe is for the levites & preiests, but later mentions tithing (and a 3 year tithe) to be used for the poor, stranger, etc. It seems that this would mathmatically result in less than a tenth going to the levites, once you take out for festivals etc.

Also, it says that the levites collect the tithe and a tithe of the tithe goes to the temple storehouse. If that is so, then what exactly are people bringing more offerings (festivals, food kept locally in each town) to Jerusalem, if the Levites already collected the full tithe.

Do you see why I'm arriving at this conclusion? It's like our tax today, income + everything you buy. When we buy, it's taxed in addition to the already required income tax. It seems like the Levites collect the full tenth, then additional items above the tithe are brought to the festivals.

Plus the 3 year tithe cant be the same tithe in my mind. I mean, if the poor Livites has to wait 3 years to eat?

I'm just trying to lay this out logically, so we can find the confusion so I can understand this better.

***

Chapter 13

But every true prophet who is willing to dwell among you is worthy of his food [that is, his physical needs]. Likewise, a true teacher is himself worthy of his food, even as is a workman. Therefore, take the firstfruits [the first and best] of every produce of the wine-press and threshing-floor, of oxen and sheep, and give it to the prophets, since they are your chief priests. But if [the local congregation] doesn't have a prophet, give it to the poor.

If you make a feast, give the firstfruits of it according to the commandment. In the same manner, when you open a jar of wine or of oil, take the firstfruits and give it to the prophets. Also take the firstfruits of money, of clothes, and of every possession, as it seems reasonable to you, and give it according to the commandment.

***

Most of the local congregations were led by prophets in the first century, and that's what this chapter of the Didache is referring to.

Anyway, I hope that answers your questions about tithing. Let me know if you still have questions, though.

Damon

Doesn't it also say:
But whoever says in the Spirit, Give me money, or something else, you shall not listen to him. But if he tells you to give for others' sake who are in need, let no one judge him. Chapter 11

Also, would todays elders be considered prophets? I have no problem supporting the church, I just have an issue of every service the time comes for "tithes and offerings". If someone is in need they take a second offering. And they constantly quote Malichi 3 "shall a man rob God, you have robbed me in tithes and offerings, bring the whole tithe to the storehouse (they equate to the church)". Clearly, people are feeling condemned if they don't give 10%. Nothing like putting people under the law to feel compulsed to give "x" amount. Seems to be against (2 Cor 9:7). And how many churches take up a collection on the first day of the week to give to another, more needy church.

Just some thoughts.

[Guest]

[snip citation]

I can see that, but how do you account for the fact that the tithe is for the levites & preiests, but later mentions tithing (and a 3 year tithe) to be used for the poor, stranger, etc. It seems that this would mathmatically result in less than a tenth going to the levites, once you take out for festivals etc.

That's correct. To give an example of how this would work in practice, once every third year, the bulk of the tithe - minus what would be needed to keep the Feast of Tabernacles - would be given to the poor instead of to the priests and Levites. Since everyone would have a different count of the "third year" this meant that the poor would be continually provided for.

Also, it says that the levites collect the tithe and a tithe of the tithe goes to the temple storehouse. If that is so, then what exactly are people bringing more offerings (festivals, food kept locally in each town) to Jerusalem, if the Levites already collected the full tithe.

During the year, most of the tithe would be reserved for the priests and Levites in the local area, while 10% of the tithe would be sent to Jerusalem. But during the Feast of Tabernacles, when the sacrificial requirements were greater than usual, the Festival Tithe would go into effect. The tithe wasn't just collected once a year, but was an ongoing thing.

Make sense?

[snip Didache chapter 13]

Doesn't it also say:

But whoever says in the Spirit, Give me money, or something else, you shall not listen to him. But if he tells you to give for others' sake who are in need, let no one judge him. Chapter 11

What this part of the Didache was written for was to enable the Christians in the local communities who gathered together to discern true prophets from false prophets and true teachers from false teachers. This was a major problem in the early Church. It wasn't that the laity weren't responsible for providing for the physical needs of the ministry, because Paul himself claims that they were. This part of the Didache wasn't meant to be rigidly followed. Rather, it was meant as an illustration of how to test the itinerant prophets and teachers who visited the local congregations. There were, of course, exceptions to this 'rule.'

Also see 2 Cor. 12:13-18, where Paul actually apologizes to the Corinthians for not requiring them to provide for his physical needs as he ministered to them! Because Paul did that, they learned to not properly value Paul's ministry to them. Nevertheless, in order to keep their trust, Paul once again decided to not require them to support his needs.

Also, would todays elders be considered prophets?

No, but they would be considered teachers. Prophets are directly inspired by God to not only understand things to come but also to be able to supernaturally perceive where the laity fall short of God's will for them. Christian ministers today don't have that spiritual gift, at least not as an office, on an ongoing basis.

I have no problem supporting the church, I just have an issue of every service the time comes for "tithes and offerings".

This kind of thing takes a lot of discernment to keep in proper balance, but remember how Paul didn't want to be burdensome to the Corinthians and thereby lose their trust, compromising his ability to spiritually minister to them? It sounds like the church you're referring to is doing precisely that. (At least, that's how I read your take on it.) That's not a good sign.

Damon

[Guest]

Right, Todd, but I hope you didn't confuse 2 Cor. 9 with 1 Cor. 9, which I cited above.

Okay?

Damon

Damon,

I wasn't referring to anything you wrote. I enjoyed reading your post. I was just citing a verse which I have always considered as the main instruction for Christians regarding giving.

Todd

[Guest]

During the year, most of the tithe would be reserved for the priests and Levites in the local area, while 10% of the tithe would be sent to Jerusalem. But during the Feast of Tabernacles, when the sacrificial requirements were greater than usual, the Festival Tithe would go into effect. The tithe wasn't just collected once a year, but was an ongoing thing.

Make sense?

Damon

So the festival tithe was an additional tithe, but was only required during the Feast of Tabernacles, not year round. Is this correct? I think that's what your saying here: "the Festival Tithe would go into effect". But I'm not sure what you mean here: "The tithe wasn't just collected once a year, but was an ongoing thing." You lost me here, is this the "regular tithe" that was ongoing and the festival tithe that was taken only during the Feast of Tabernacles? I think that's what your saying.

[Guest]

Er, when the Festival Tithe was in effect, the normal tithe was not. It was just a matter of how the tithe of 10% was to be used, depending on the time of year and on whether it was the third year or not.

The collection of the tithe was an ongoing thing. Just like "tithes and offerings" are collected once a week in your local congregation, the tithe would be paid/distributed on a regular basis in ancient Israel. When the Feast of Tabernacles came around, the tithe went to it instead of to the local priests and Levites or to the poor.

Make sense now?

Damon

[Guest]

Damon,

I wasn't referring to anything you wrote. I enjoyed reading your post. I was just citing a verse which I have always considered as the main instruction for Christians regarding giving.

Ah. Okay. ^_^

Damon