Hell book complete

[backwoodsman]

A seller on Abebooks has it for a couple bucks cheaper (when shipping cost is considered):

http://www.bookfinder4u.com/process_url ... 1350923693

[john6809]

Thanks for the heads-up, backwoodsman. I will check it out. Living in Canada, I would have to see how shipping costs compare. CBD sends from a warehouse in Canada (I think).

[jriccitelli]

Are you saying it is not necessary to be a Christian? (Me)

Hmmm. I can't imagine what statement of mine could have aroused this inquiry. (Steve)

*Some, I know, think this should be modified to read, "good tidings of great joy which will be to all people—except for those who have loved ones or know anyone who is not a Christian—for them, the news is actually pretty bad!" (Steve pg.4)

This was directed at my belief, which would be the predominate Christian belief of: "good tidings... except for... anyone who is not a Christian"
(Or anyone who who does not 'believe' the good news)

Are you saying your belief is that someone who is 'not' a Christian has no reason to worry? Look at your statement. What is the point in being a Christian? Isn't the idea and definition of: being a 'Christian' = being a 'believer'?
Are not people commanded to 'believe' the good news, but how many do?
The context of the the Gospel and throughout 'all' Gods Word is: you must believe to be saved. There is no 'modification' of this 'doctrine' from either the traditionalist or CI camp.

[steve]

JR,

I can hardly believe that, at this late stage in the discussion, you still write as if you have no awareness of the teaching you are so ineffectively trying to debunk. Everything you write advertises that there is no reason for anyone to try to explain these beliefs to you, since you have ignored (and/or pretend not to know) what has been explained a dozen times or more in dialogue with you. Maybe you should just debate yourself, since you don't seem to hear anyone else when they write to you.

[Candlepower]

Isn't the idea and definition of: being a 'Christian' = being a 'believer'?

That's a good definition, but I think Acts 11:26 provides a better one. There we are told, "...the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch."

Christians are more than believers; they are also followers (disciples). Belief is good, but in James 2:19 we are told, "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!"

It seems from these verses that demons and Christians share a common belief...that God is. But something that distinguishes demons from Christians is that Christians follow God. That is, they are His disciples. Demons are called believers, but they are never called disciples.

[jriccitelli]

I agree Candle, yet whatever definition 'Steve meant' by Christian and Gospel in his post (pg4) would be my starting point, along with the context of my inquiry concerning the Luke 2 passage concerning the “good tidings of great joy” which would be the announcement of our Saviors birth, something a person would have to believe as a necessary means to salvation.

Steve seems to not be able to see that I am challenging him with the problem that a postmortem situation presents when you remove the place of belief faith and the test of either (the place meaning; our life in the body), when the bible places a 100% emphasis and necessity on both.

He has said in posts here that when they see Jesus they will all accept him. My response would be; If God wanted simply to get people to accept, why not just reveal Himself now, why keep hidden at all? We know He will eventually, as in Johns Revelation, but still many refused to repent. Note He was here and still they crucified Him, why is it in hell that they all repent? And why is God waiting till they are in hell? If they see Him shouldn’t that be enough, that’s what a believer is, one who accepts because of what he has revealed, not what is unrevealed or brought about by torture.

[jriccitelli]

I have to accept that Steve’s definition of death means ‘everyone who dies is raised to life’ (If this is incorrect please explain ‘how’ it is incorrect) and ‘lives’ either in hell or heaven. My point is that only the believer is raised to life; immortality is conditional.
(Only Jesus conquered death, and only ‘in Him’ does a person have ‘Life’)

You are demanding that I show you verses that prove all OT verses refer ‘also’ to a postmortem hell and destruction. That they do such is very clear to most everyone I come across because most people consider the blessings and promises of life, lands and salvation in the OT to be both physical and symbolic descriptions of the future and heaven after we die (My basis for that is; OT scripture often begins by saying this is what He will do to the sinner, and then proceeds to describe the punishments and destruction, yet ‘all’ who are unrighteous are sinners).
I 'have' asked for answers to the verses that refer to names being blotted out of the book of life both from the OT and new. I have asked for answers regarding UR and the OT references to a final Judgment day, and the destruction and annihilation associated with those verses (I recall no answers to these verses). I have also made a detailed comparison of just a few of the hundreds of OT quotes that Jesus and the NT writers use in describing postmortem realities and Judgments that are lifted almost verbatim from what Steve continues to quote as being temporal earthly judgments (or fall under the fullpreterist irrelevance dogma)

I also have given good arguments here challenging UR over the 'finality' of death and Judgment (Jesus also calls the living dead), as well as asking why on earth does scripture put such an emphasis on warning us of a coming Judgment and the 'urgency' to repent and believe NOW?
(i.e. the parables of the lazy virgins, the wedding banquet, the talents, etc. they do not seem to be warning us so as to avoid 'pain' and 'remorse' in hell, but they speak of the end of opportunity for life and the choice given to accept it)

[steve]

He has said in posts here that when they see Jesus they will all accept him.

If the "he" in this sentence is me, I would like to see where it was that this prediction was made. It is not one of my convictions, and it would surprise me if I had said it. That some might receive Christ when they see Him definitely seems possible—and I cannot even see why it would be controversial.

[CThomas]

Dag nabbit -- in my excitement I posted this message in the wrong discussion thread. Not sure if there's a way to have that incorrectly placed comment removed from the "Debating an Atheist" page.

"Good news -- Amazon has sent me a notice that the book has been shipped. At long last, the Hell book gets out of purgatory!"

[steve]

Fixed it.