A Calvinist answers Mark 4 and talks about hardening.

[Guest]

My friend Derek got this responce from a Calvinist pastor.


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"Question: Why would God use a parable to harden those who were, according to the Calvinistic doctrine of total inability, naturally set against embracing Christ to begin with?

Answer: To further harden the hearts of these reprobate Jews against the gospel as a form of judicial divine covenantal judgment for committing the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as recorded earlier in Mark 3:28-29."

*Hendriksen confirms this regarding the parallel passage, “What we have here in Matt. 13:14, 15 is a further commentary on 12:31, 32 which tells us how the blasphemy against the Spirit is punished. It is because by their own choice the heart of the people has become dull or fat, that it is made dull or fat. It is because by their own unwillingness to listen their ears have become hard of hearing, that they are made even more so. And it is because they have deliberately closed their eyes, that these eyes are shut even more tightly.” William Hendriksen, New Testament Commentary – Exposition of the Gospel According to Matthew (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1973), 555-556.

*Reymond states in regard to the use of these parables in Christ’s preaching, “Many Scriptures affirm that heart-hardening is an effect, and thus one purpose, of preaching to the nonelect (cf. Isa. 6:9-13; Mark 4:11-12; John 9:39; 12:38-40; 2 Cor. 2:15-16).” Robert Reymond, A New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith (Nasville; Thomas Nelson, 1998), 360 fn 20.

*Curt Daniel states in regards to John’s comments after quoting Isaiah 6:9-10 (i.e., “John 12:39-40 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, 40 "HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.”), “He [God] actually prevents the reprobate from spiritually seeing and hearing. Of course, the are quite pleased to stay that way. They do not want to see and hear.” Curt Daniel, The History and Theology of Calvinism (Springfield, MO: Good Books, 2003), 304.

*Regarding the use of parables he goes on to say, “For the elect, God used the parables to grant knowledge and faith. But for the reprobate, God used them to confuse and harden. Of course, it develops gradually. Like the disciples, an elect may be confused. But as He reads and hears more, he gradually understands more and comes to faith. Conversely, a reprobate, may at one time have a certain amount of understanding, but in time gradually lose it (cf. vs. 12 [of Matt. 13:14-15]), Ibid, 304.

Remember, as Daniel notes above, Matthew’s parallel passage provides a verse that gives us some greater detail, Matthew 13:12 "For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.” Thus, Matthew 13:12 tells us that whatever information the Pharisees did believe about Jesus, as a form of judicial sentencing, God would actually take away what little understanding they already had through the use of the parables.

Matthew Henry has confirmatory statements regarding this passage in this regard:

“I. The way of teaching that Christ used with the multitude (v. 2); He taught them many things, but it was by parables or similitudes, which would tempt them to hear; for people love to be spoken to in their own language, and careless hearers will catch at a plain comparison borrowed from common things, and will retain and repeat that, when they have lost, or perhaps never took, the truth which it was designed to explain and illustrate: but unless they would take pains to search into it, it would but amuse them; seeing they would see, and not perceive (v. 12); and so, while it gratified their curiosity, it was the punishment of their stupidity; they wilfully shut their eyes against the light, and therefore justly did Christ put it into the dark lantern of a parable, which had a bright side toward those who applied it to themselves, and were willing to be guided by it; but to those who were only willing for a season to play with it, it only gave a flash of light now and then, but sent them away in the dark. It is just with God to say of those that will not see, that they shall not see, and to hide from their eyes, who only look about them with a great deal of carelessness, and never look before them with any concern upon the things that belong to their peace.” Matthew Henry Commentary on Matthew 4:1-20 (Bibleworks ref.)

These referred to by Daniel and Henry are the same ones that “believed” on Jesus in John 8, but Jesus exposed their second seed “faith” (Mk. 4:16-17) for what it was. We will look at this passage as a real-time example of what is going on in the fulfillment of Isaiah 6:9-10 as quoted from the LXX in Mark 4:11-12.

John 8:28-44 So Jesus said, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me. 29 "And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him." 30 As He spoke these things, many came to believe in Him. 31 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." 33 They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, 'You will become free '?" 34 Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 35 "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36 "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. 37 "I know that you are Abraham's descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 "I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father." 39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. 41 "You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God." 42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43 "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Notice the progression: (1) The context begins with the Sanhedrin being confused as to His identity in John 7:45-52, then skipping the Pericope Adulterae, (2) we land perfectly into one of His great “I AM” treatises from 8:12ff and lo and behold, in verse 22, John tells us that the primary audience are the Jews who were probably still freshly attuned to the identity of Jesus per the confusion from the previous day with the Sanhedrin. (3) Now, in this context we have those Jews who are “believing” on Him (vv. 8:30-31) in some sense but notice that this is *not* saving faith because these same “believers” reveal their true colors as children of the devil as Jesus reminds them in verse 43 that they “cannot hear His word.” (vv. 33-44).

Now, note that the text makes clear reference to the fact that there are two requirements to being saved (1) belief [per vv. 30-31] and (2) perseverance in Christ’s word as the authenticating earmarks of a true disciple. These professing Jews quickly fell away like the second seed mentioned in Mark 4:16-17,

"In a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; 17 and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they fall away.

Summary:

1. The use of a parable in the hardening of these Jewish reprobates is necessary for the fulfillment of Isaiah 6:9-10 as seen in Mark 4:11-12. Such use by Jesus further clarifies His identity as the promised Messiah thereby condemning them more as they continue in their committal of the unpardonable sin from Mark 3:28-29. Thus, this is a SPECIAL Jewish/covenantal, divine hardening fulfilled only in the Israelite infidels of Jesus’ day who experienced an emotional and temporary non-saving faith that was later to be snuffed out by the judicial hardening of their hearts by God. Again, this was done in response to their willful committing of the unpardonable sin by rejecting their own Messiah. It is important to point out again that this judicial hardening was for the Israelites alone and that this special, retributive hardening would be the fulfillment of prophecy that would eventually lead to the breaking off of the Old Covenant people and the grafting in of the Gentiles into the root so as to bring about the “one new man” of Ephesians 2:15-16 (cf. Rom. 11:7-10). This is important in light of number 2 below.

2. God does *not* absolutely need to specially harden these Jews or anyone else for that matter, for the Jews already “[could not] hear [His] words” even though they “believed.” (John 8:43, 30-31) and amongst the pagan Gentiles “. . . there is no God-seeker.” (Rom. 3:11 – lit. Greek trans). However, for the purposes of prophetic fulfillment as mentioned in # 1 above, God specially and specifically covenantally hardened these Israelites to remove *all ability* to understand and perceive Jesus’ identity and message because such served as part of the ordained means for fulfilling God’s decree for their participation in killing their own Messiah (Acts 2:22-23; 4:27-29).

3. They had “believed” in some sense (John 8:30-31), but such was not a faith produced by conversion, for only those who continue in Christ’s word will be His authentic disciples. Thus here, Jesus hints at the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints.

4. The use of the subjunctive mood with the entirety of the verse is translated somewhat inconsistently in the ESV, NASB, and NKJV so as to give the impression that these reprobates have the inherent ability to obtain true spiritual salvation. But as you’ll see, a more consistent translation is provided in the NET below:

NET Mark 4:12 so that although they look they may look but not see, and although they hear they may hear but not understand, SO THEY MAY NOT REPENT AND BE FORGIVEN."

So, it is clear from the use of the subjunctive aorist verbs (as more clearly translated in the NET) that this special prophetic hardening was for the purpose of sealing their doom. I don't have time to go into the grammar here, so you can study this at your own leisure.

In conclusion, Mark 4:12b is probably a hypothetical impossibility reflecting God’s covenant love still being extended to Old Covenant Israel. In other words, had they not been judicially hardened in accordance with Isaiah’s prophecy after committing the most high sin against Yahveh the Son (the blasphemy of the HS), they “might” have believed had they not been the subjects of God’s dark providence. From the standpoint of God’s sovereign decree, this is impossible, but from the standpoint of His moral will and as a sign of His continued covenant love to them He still extends the gospel call. Thus, what’s in the latter half of verse 12 is merely a written expression of that continued forbearance, love, and patience for Abraham’s physical seed. So, there is a sense in which the non-elect Jews here may hypothetically be saved if they’ll only repent and believe per God’s moral will, but God’s sovereign decree will be fulfilled nonetheless so there is no actual saving grace given to them as they are reprobate. For another example of a hypothetical impossibility read Acts Chapter 27 comparing verses 22-26 with verses 31 and 34.

I hope this helps give a clearer picture of what is going on in this difficult verse. May God richly bless you all.

Dusman


So what are everyones thoughts here?

[Guest]

Uh...I just kinda skimmed it so mayhap I missed the answer to the original question, but the response "To further harden the hearts of these reprobate Jews against the gospel as a form of judicial divine covenantal judgment for committing the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as recorded earlier in Mark 3:28-29" doesn't seem like much of a response.

If Calvinism is true, then why would it matter how much the hearts of the Jews were hardened? They're either elected to "get it" or reporbated (as it were) to miss it, right?

[Guest]

Uh...I just kinda skimmed it so mayhap I missed the answer to the original question, but the response "To further harden the hearts of these reprobate Jews against the gospel as a form of judicial divine covenantal judgment for committing the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as recorded earlier in Mark 3:28-29" doesn't seem like much of a response.

If Calvinism is true, then why would it matter how much the hearts of the Jews were hardened? They're either elected to "get it" or reporbated (as it were) to miss it, right?

I agree with you, but there responce would go something like this:

"The "further hardening" is the way in which God takes the "little that they have" from them. For what reason? I don't know. I guess it depends on your starting point.
Thanks for your reply.

[Guest]

If Calvinism is true, then why would it matter how much the hearts of the Jews were hardened? They're either elected to "get it" or reporbated (as it were) to miss it, right?

I think he addresses this in points 1. and 2. in his "summary." Particularly point 2.

[Guest]

The brother that wrote the answer to my question is Dustin Seegers and the original post can be found here

[Guest]

In my humble opinion, that's weak. He seems to be saying that those Jews had already hardened their own hearts, Jesus was just hardening them even more." But that doesn't do anything to solve the problem.

Let's assume that these people were non-elect. Okay, did they ever have any ability to repent and have their sins forgiven? If they did, then Total Depravity (Calvinistic version) is destroyed. Hallelujah!

But Total Depravity demands that they never had this ability. If so, the quesiton remains, how could they lose something (through self-hardening, through Jesus' use of parables, or both) that they never had in the first place?

As I see it, the text just makes no sense in a Calvinistic framework.

[Guest]

Hey guys,

But Total Depravity demands that they never had this ability. If so, the quesiton remains, how could they lose something (through self-hardening, through Jesus' use of parables, or both) that they never had in the first place?

I appreciate the responses, but what would help me to gain a better understanding, is if someone could interact with what he says here a bit more specifically.

It seems that everyone is only reading his initial answer, and then, responding with my original question.

Question (rephrased a bit by Dustin):

Question: Why would God use a parable to harden those who were, according to the Calvinistic doctrine of total inability, naturally set against embracing Christ to begin with?

Why is what he says wrong? Please help!! It seems to make sense to me!

By the way, although Reformed Theology has been making good sense to me lately, as my friend Brody can woefully attest, (he has suffered thorugh many long phone calls working this all out with me), I am at this point, agnostic in regards to the subject.

Thanks for the help!

[Guest]

Why is what he says wrong? Please help!! It seems to make sense to me!

By the way, although Reformed Theology has been making good sense to me lately, as my friend Brody can woefully attest, (he has suffered thorugh many long phone calls working this all out with me), I am at this point, agnostic in regards to the subject.

Thanks for the help!

Suffered? I enjoyed every minute of it.

As to your question, I don't see where it is wrong if God himself hardened an individual who rejects Christ. After all, he is God. But I think the Calvinist position takes it a little bit farther than I would like to go.

Anyone else want to chime in?

[Guest]

Why is what he says wrong? Please help!! It seems to make sense to me!

Hey Derek, sorry to be so brief but I'm finding with Calvinists that they tend to go all over the place with elongated spiels when responding to simple questions. While he offered some interesting insights with all thos ereferences, the basic quesiton didn't get answered.

I asked the same question at another forum and so far (after a few couple days) no one's offered a decent response. The discussion so far may be of some interest. Mind the Calvinistic back-patting! : http://holycultureradio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8390

Ely

[Guest]

Man, this stuff makes my head hurt.

i kind of look at it this way. IF the calvinist view is correct (and this is far from certain), then God may have further hardened the hearts of the non-elect so as to assure they will have no desire to seek after Him in truth.

in other words, if i am going to doom somebody, i wouldnt want them to like me. that would make me feel sort of rotten. i would rather them not care about me at all.

think about it-- what would be worse-- seeking after truth and having the door slammed in your face, or not seeking at all?

i know this may be so simplistic as to be comical (because i am no expert in reform theology); if so, laugh and move on. the topic is interesting though!

TK