Lydia (my daughter's namesake)

[darinhouston]

So, since I've named my newborn daughter Lydia, I've been re-contemplating Acts 16:14-15:

First Convert in Europe

14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul. 15 And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us.

So, seer may not like this, but clearly Lydia loved God before God opened her heart. But, I've never noticed just what it was that God opened her heart to do -- He didn't expressly open her heart to "believe," as I often hear this quoted -- He opened her heart to "respond to the things spoken by Paul."

Now, I guess you could interpret it as being a response of belief in what he had said, but the following verses speak of her baptism and urging to have them stay with her -- so, I see her response as being an act of obedience to the "Way" of Christ. She already loved God -- sure, her response was probably driven by her acceptance of Christ as her Messiah, and I can grant even that God has to open a heart to accept this, but Calvinists go further and require that those whose hearts have been "yet opened" by God can't do anything but hate God -- accept Christ? Maybe -- but, love God? That seems to be directly contradicted by at least Lydia's experience.

Any thoughts on this beautiful yet short passage which appears to describe an amazing godly woman?

[seer]

So, since I've named my newborn daughter Lydia, I've been re-contemplating Acts 16:14-15:

First Convert in Europe

14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul. 15 And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us.

So, seer may not like this, but clearly Lydia loved God before God opened her heart. But, I've never noticed just what it was that God opened her heart to do -- He didn't expressly open her heart to "believe," as I often hear this quoted -- He opened her heart to "respond to the things spoken by Paul."

Now, I guess you could interpret it as being a response of belief in what he had said, but the following verses speak of her baptism and urging to have them stay with her -- so, I see her response as being an act of obedience to the "Way" of Christ. She already loved God -- sure, her response was probably driven by her acceptance of Christ as her Messiah, and I can grant even that God has to open a heart to accept this, but Calvinists go further and require that those whose hearts have been "yet opened" by God can't do anything but hate God -- accept Christ? Maybe -- but, love God? That seems to be directly contradicted by at least Lydia's experience.

Any thoughts on this beautiful yet short passage which appears to describe an amazing godly woman?

Beautiful child Darin... Well, why did Lydia worship God in the first place? Did she just wake up one morning and decide to love Him? Or was that initial faith also a gift of God? The second question - would Lydia have responded to Paul's message if God did not first open her heart?

[darinhouston]

Beautiful child Darin... Well, why did Lydia worship God in the first place? Did she just wake up one morning and decide to love Him? Or was that initial faith also a gift of God? The second question - would Lydia have responded to Paul's message if God did not first open her heart?

Thank you -- one benefit of adoption is I can brag on my beautiful children without it being a reflection of my pride. She's becoming more precious every day -- my grandfather was a country doctor and delivered thousands of babies over his career -- he said all of them looked like Winston Churchill.

Of course that faith was a gift of God, but clearly it wasn't a result of regeneration was it?

Second question -- I'd be arguing from silence to say either way, but it appears He did open her heart. I personally believe He can and does open and close hearts -- whether it's normative for salvation, maybe but we might not agree on what basis God chooses to open and close the heart.

Back to my own question -- do you think her "responding" to Paul's message was with reference to her obedience in submission to Christ's teachings (through Paul) or a "mere" belief in Christ as Messiah? I believe it was probably both, but certainly more than a mere profession/acceptance of his "salvation."

Now another question for you -- you appear to be quite reformed while continuing in introspection (a rare bread, indeed) -- do you agree with the "standard" Reformed tenet that one can not love God without first being regenerated ?

[seer]

Now another question for you -- you appear to be quite reformed while continuing in introspection (a rare bread, indeed) -- do you agree with the "standard" Reformed tenet that one can not love God without first being regenerated ?

I don't believe that any man can have genuine faith in God or Christ withiout a prior work of God. Or keep in faith without a on going work of God. I don't believe , at this point in my understanding, that "regeneartion" is a one time event - it simply describes the process. Regeneration simply means to make new or renew. I think I have a long way to go before I'm completely new or renewed...

[darinhouston]

Now another question for you -- you appear to be quite reformed while continuing in introspection (a rare bread, indeed) -- do you agree with the "standard" Reformed tenet that one can not love God without first being regenerated ?

I don't believe that any man can have genuine faith in God or Christ withiout a prior work of God. Or keep in faith without a on going work of God. I don't believe , at this point in my understanding, that "regeneartion" is a one time event - it simply describes the process. Regeneration simply means to make new or renew. I think I have a long way to go before I'm completely new or renewed...

I'm surprised to hear a Calvinist say this -- I thought it was a fundamental tenet of the Reformed position that man was totally depraved and had NO capacity to "assist" or "cooperate" in his salvation and that it was COMPLETELY a work of God -- not that God's work was a condition precedent, but the "whole deal" and that man's will was not free and played no active role in the process. Further, that until man was regenerated (not begun to be regenerated), he could not love God in any genuine way.

Regeneration
Regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit to bring a soul from death to life, therefore creating in that soul an irresistible desire to believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
That act of God by which the principle of the new life is implanted in man, and the governing disposition of the soul is made holy and the first holy exercise of this new disposition is secured. - Louis Berkhof's Systematic Theology

Regeneration precedes faith, since the unregenerate soul is unable to believe in the gospel because it hates God, is at war with God, and can not do anything good.

As I read this, I realize, the Reformed don't believe regeneration comes upon faith in Christ, but instead is a separate act prior to belief in Christ, which enables that belief.

I guess if you believe Lydia had no choice but to believe, it's a moot point -- otherwise, you'd have someone who was regenerated (otherwise she couldn't love God) and never become justified.

[seer]

I'm surprised to hear a Calvinist say this -- I thought it was a fundamental tenet of the Reformed position that man was totally depraved and had NO capacity to "assist" or "cooperate" in his salvation and that it was COMPLETELY a work of God -- not that God's work was a condition precedent, but the "whole deal" and that man's will was not free and played no active role in the process. Further, that until man was regenerated (not begun to be regenerated), he could not love God in any genuine way.

Darin, I did not deny any of the above. I believe it is ALL of God. From beginning to end.


I guess if you believe Lydia had no choice but to believe, it's a moot point -- otherwise, you'd have someone who was regenerated (otherwise she couldn't love God) and never become justified.

Exactly, I don't believe Lydia had a choice. Neither did I...