1 Corinthians 2:14

Post Reply
User avatar
Sean
Posts: 407
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:48 am
Location: Smithton, IL USA

Re: 1 Corinthians 2:14

Post by Sean » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:42 am

seer wrote: Sean, there are two kinds of faith. The faith of Devils and the faith that loves and serves God. I take the one in Luke as the the former. You say that the faith that loves and serves God is not worthy of merit - well if it is from you then it certainly is a act worthy of merit - because loving and serving God is a supreme good. Biblical faith is not a bare mental assent. It involves submission of the whole man. Paul speaks of "the work of faith" and the "obedience of faith." Christ says we must "pick up our cross" or we are not His disciples. This is biblical faith and nothing less. And a meritorious endeavor if there ever was one (if it's from us).

And I still can not understand why mature Christian so want to glory in their flesh...
Your still "begging the question". We understand your position, we just don't see a biblical reason to accept it as valid.

Faith occurs at regeneration. Since I'm not Reformed I believe faith must be present to be born again (John 3). When you are born again you recieve the Holy Spirit. Those lead by the Spirit are those who are pleasing to Him. This process can be hindered by free choice (1 Cor 3). Love and other works of the Spirit do not occur before the Spirit has been given. However, those who ask for the Holy Spirit will recieve it.

Luke 11:13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

Picking up the cross and following Jesus are things that the Holy Spirit empowers us to do. But to recieve the Spirit one must believe first:

Acts 11:15 "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16"And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' 17"Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"

This is why the Reformend have come up with the doctrine of "regeneration before belief". But the bible refutes this. Your not born again by the Spirit until you first believe.
seer wrote:And I still can not understand why mature Christian so want to glory in their flesh...
I see your new Calvinist powers have given you the ability to see another's heart. ;) Did you listen to Steve's answer on Friday? Even if I did everything perfectly for the rest of my life I could not atone for my own sins. My friend, what in the world would I then boast about? If a prisoner does everything right in prision, does he merit his own freedom? I didn't die on the cross.
He will not fail nor be discouraged till He has established justice in the earth. (Isaiah 42:4)
Top
User avatar
darinhouston
Posts: 3123
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am

Re: 1 Corinthians 2:14

Post by darinhouston » Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:55 am

Another thought seer - what if an unbeliever saves someone's life sacrificially or some other surpremely good act?
Top
User avatar
seer
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:16 am
Location: New England

Re: 1 Corinthians 2:14

Post by seer » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:18 am

Sean wrote:Did you listen to Steve's answer on Friday? Even if I did everything perfectly for the rest of my life I could not atone for my own sins. My friend, what in the world would I then boast about? If a prisoner does everything right in prision, does he merit his own freedom? I didn't die on the cross.

I'm going to drop this thread. I have to think about Steve's answer for a bit. It would not effect Calvinism per say, but would pretty much destroy my "supreme good" argument. :oops: See ya on the Romans 9 discussion Sean...
Thanks to the human heart by which we live, thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears, To me the meanest flower that blows can give thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears. Wordsworth
Top
User avatar
darinhouston
Posts: 3123
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am

Re: 1 Corinthians 2:14

Post by darinhouston » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:16 pm

then I can't wait to hear it since he undoubtedly did a better job than I've done here. But, I'm really interested in how losing the supreme point doesn't impact Calvinism itself.
Top
User avatar
seer
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:16 am
Location: New England

Re: 1 Corinthians 2:14

Post by seer » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:19 pm

darinhouston wrote:then I can't wait to hear it since he undoubtedly did a better job than I've done here. But, I'm really interested in how losing the supreme point doesn't impact Calvinism itself.
It still does not tell us the "source" of our faith - us or God...
Thanks to the human heart by which we live, thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears, To me the meanest flower that blows can give thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears. Wordsworth
Top
User avatar
darinhouston
Posts: 3123
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am

Re: 1 Corinthians 2:14

Post by darinhouston » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:33 pm

seer wrote:
darinhouston wrote:then I can't wait to hear it since he undoubtedly did a better job than I've done here. But, I'm really interested in how losing the supreme point doesn't impact Calvinism itself.
It still does not tell us the "source" of our faith - us or God...
But you'll find no disagreement here as to the source of our faith.
Top
User avatar
seer
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:16 am
Location: New England

Re: 1 Corinthians 2:14

Post by seer » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:43 pm

darinhouston wrote:
seer wrote:
darinhouston wrote:then I can't wait to hear it since he undoubtedly did a better job than I've done here. But, I'm really interested in how losing the supreme point doesn't impact Calvinism itself.
It still does not tell us the "source" of our faith - us or God...
But you'll find no disagreement here as to the source of our faith.
Yes, you are the source of your faith and salvation...
Thanks to the human heart by which we live, thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears, To me the meanest flower that blows can give thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears. Wordsworth
Top
User avatar
darinhouston
Posts: 3123
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am

Re: 1 Corinthians 2:14

Post by darinhouston » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:03 pm

seer wrote:
darinhouston wrote:
seer wrote: But you'll find no disagreement here as to the source of our faith.
Yes, you are the source of your faith and salvation...
Speak for yourself ;) -- that's not what I believe and I don't think it's what most around here believe either.
Top
User avatar
seer
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:16 am
Location: New England

Re: 1 Corinthians 2:14

Post by seer » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:07 pm

darinhouston wrote: Speak for yourself ;) -- that's not what I believe and I don't think it's what most around here believe either.
So is biblical faith a gift of God? Do all have this gift?
Thanks to the human heart by which we live, thanks to its tenderness, its joys, and fears, To me the meanest flower that blows can give thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears. Wordsworth
Top
User avatar
darinhouston
Posts: 3123
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am

Re: 1 Corinthians 2:14

Post by darinhouston » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:17 pm

seer wrote:
darinhouston wrote: Speak for yourself ;) -- that's not what I believe and I don't think it's what most around here believe either.
So is biblical faith a gift of God? Do all have this gift?
In my opinion yes it is a gift of God and that all have the potential of receiving it, but must be willing to do what's necessary to receive it.
Top
Post Reply

Return to “Calvinism, Arminianism & Open Theism”