A Calvinist on: "Leaving Christ(ianity)"

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_Rick_C
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A Calvinist on: "Leaving Christ(ianity)"

Post by _Rick_C » Wed May 14, 2008 11:19 am

I received the following in a Reclaiming the Mind Ministries Newsletter from Michael Patton.
____________________

April 2008

Leaving Christ(ianity) - A Christian Epidemic


I sat down with a young lady a couple of weeks ago and had a conversation. This was a conversation about faith—her faith. Better put, this was a conversation about a faith that once was and is no more. She was a very interesting and bright lady—inquisitive, well-read, and suspicious. She began by telling me that she was a Christian (past tense) and had sense left the faith. Christ was once a part of her confession, but, as she recounted to me, after a long voyage of not finding sufficient answers for her doubts, she believes that she had no choice but to follow her own integrity and renounce Christ all together. I asked her what her problems were and she became very emotional. It was like I represented Christianity and she was ready to take it all out on me.

Ignorance. Pity. Shame. These are all good descriptions of what she thought of Christianity. But the primary description that I felt coming from here was “betrayal.” She had been betrayed by the Church because they duped her into a belief not unlike that of the tooth fairy. When she discovered this betrayal, no one had a valid answer or excuse. So she left.

She is now an unbeliever—a soon-to-be evangelistic unbeliever.
One fascination, obsession, and focus (neurotic pulse?) I have in my life and ministry is with regard to those, like this young lady, who leave the faith. You may have noticed this. I have over a dozen books giving autobiographical sketches of those who once proclaimed to be Christian and are now evangelistic atheists, agnostics, or skeptics, with their goal to convert or, rather, unconvert others. I have been in contact with many people who either have already left or are on the verge of leaving. I get emails, phone calls, and visits from the same.

No, it is not a neurotic pulse. I believe that it is the recognition of an extremely serious issue that we are facing today. We are facing an epidemic in Christianity—an epidemic of unbelief among our own. Crowding our churches are those who are somewhere in the process of leaving. No, I am not talking about leaving a denomination. I am not talking about abandoning some institutionalized expression of Christianity. I am not talking about leaving the church (though related). And I am not even talking about renouncing religion. I am talking about those who are leaving Christ.

Over 31 million Americans are saying “check please” to the church, and are off to find answers elsewhere. Jeff Schadt, coordinator of Youth Transition Network, says thousands of youth fall away from the church when transitioning from high school to college. He and other youth leaders estimate that 65 to 94 percent of high school students stop attending church after graduating. From my studies and experience I find that leaving church is many times the first visible step in one’s pilgrimage away from Christ.

The question that we must ask is a very simple one: Why? Why are people leaving the faith at this epidemic and alarming rate? In my studies, I have found that the two primary reasons people leave the faith are 1) intellectual challenges and 2) bad theology or misplaced beliefs.
First, I want to explain this transition process, focusing on the first: intellectual challenges. You might even find yourself somewhere on this journey.
Step one: Doubt
Step two: Discouragement
Step three: Disillusionment
Step four: Apathy
Step five: Departure

Step One: Doubt
Here is where the person begins to examine his or her faith more critically by asking questions, expressing concerns, and becoming transparent with their doubt. This doubt is not wholesale, but expresses an inter longing to have questions answered and the intellect satisfied to some degree. Normally this person will inquire of mentors in the faith, requesting an audience for their doubt.

Step Two: Discouragement
This is where the person becomes frustrated because they are not finding the answers. They ask questions but the answer (or lack thereof) bring them to discouragement. Their church tells them that such questions are “unchristian.” Their Sunday school teachers say “I don’t know. You just have to believe.” Others simply say, “That’s a good questions; I have never thought of it before,” and then go on their way on their own leap-of-faith journey.

Step Three: Disillusionment
Now the person begins to become disillusioned with Christianity in general and proceeds to doubt much more deeply. They feel betrayed by those who made them believe the story about Christ. They feel that much of their former faith was naive since not even their most trusted mentors could (or would) answer the most basic questions about the Bible, history, or faith. In their thinking the intellect has become illegitimized and the church is therefore an illegitimate contender for their mind.

Step Four: Apathy
At this point in the journey, the disillusioned Christian becomes apathetic to finding the answers, believing that the answers don’t exist. They are firmly on their way to atheism, agnosticism, or pure skepticism but don’t have the courage to admit it to themselves or others. Many times those in this stage live as closet unbelievers, believing it is not worth it to come clean about their departure from the faith. They want a peaceful existence in their unbelief without creating controversy. Therefore, they are content to remain closet unbelievers.

Step Five: Departure
Here is where I meet this young lady I told you about. (Really, she was somewhere in-between apathy and departure.) At this stage the fact that they have left the faith has become real to them and they are willing to announce to the world. Because of their sense of betrayal, they feel as if it is their duty to become evangelists for the cause of unbelief. Their goal and mission becomes to unconvert the converted.

Of course, as one who believes that a true Christian cannot ever lose their salvation, I believe that one who leaves the faith was not truly ever of the faith (1 John 2:19).

“I don’t really even care what you have to say to me,” she told me that day. “I just don’t believe anymore and there is nothing anyone can do about it.” As I thought about this young lady over the last week, only one thing keeps coming to mind: how was she a part of the church for so long without the church engaging her on these issues. You see, her issues were numerous, but foundational. She doubted the resurrection of Christ, the inspiration, inerrancy, and canon of Scripture, and the historicity of the Christian faith in general. If the church had legitimized her questions during the doubting phase and truly engaged her from an intellectual front I can’t help but think, from a human point of view, things might have been different. But once she reaches the point of apathy, this seems to be a point of no return.

My life and my ministry is committed to one thing: rooting people theologically by presenting the intellectual viability of the Evangelical faith. While I understand this is not all there is to the Christian faith, it is an absolutely vital part of discipleship and foundational to everything else.
Everyone will go through the doubt phase. Everyone should ask questions about the faith. If you have not asked the “How do you know . . .” questions about the message of the Gospel, this is not a good thing. We should be challenged to think through these questions early in the faith. The Church needs to rethink its education program. Expositional preaching, while important, is not enough. Did you hear that? Expositional preaching is not enough. It does not provide the discipleship venue that is vital for us to prevent and overcome this epidemic. We should not fool ourselves into thinking that it does.

The church has been on an intellectual diet for the last century and we are suffering from theological atrophy. What else do you expect when we have replaced theological discipleship with a gluttonous promotion of entertainment, numbers, and fast-food Christianity that can produce nothing more than a veneer of faith seasoned for departure?
The solution: to reform our educational program in the church; to lay theological foundations through critical thinking; to understand that the great commission is to make disciples, not simply to make converts. And most importantly, we must pray that God will grant a revival of the mind knowing that without the power of the Holy Spirit, no amount of intellectual persuasion can change an antagonistic heart.

Folks, this is what The Theology Program is all about. This is why I believe that it is important---indeed, vital--- to get this program in as many churches as possible.

Without this, the epidemic of leaving Christ(ianity) will only worsen.
“The heart will not accept what the mind rejects.” —Jonathan Edwards

Michael Patton
President, Reclaiming the Mind Ministries
(This article also appears on the RMM "Parchment & Pen" blog).
____________________

I know Michael Patton through participation in TTP: (The Theology Program) in Paltalk. I've posted on his P&P blog and read it regularly. Michael & I stay in touch ("keep tabs on each other") by email and I consider him a good friend: he knows I'm not a Calvinist and is okay with that.

The above article has lots of things that Calvinists and Nons can and should consider: Most of us have probably thought about such things. In fact, I myself, "left Christianity" for several years and can relate my story with the person Michael wrote about above...and imagine that many of us can or know someone like them. I cannot say "I left Christ" in a full or "reprobate" sense but do know he never left me! (even though I was involved in sin and my own devices). But this isn't what I want to talk about....
Michael Patton wrote:Of course, as one who believes that a true Christian cannot ever lose their salvation, I believe that one who leaves the faith was not truly ever of the faith (1 John 2:19).
In one TTP session, after it was over, I was given the mic to give my testimony; they have "chats" after the online classes before closing the rooms.

There were others in TTP who had struggled in times past with a sin that had me bound-up for years. The Bible calls such people "drunkards"...who are commonly called "alcoholics" in our culture.

As I gave my testimony, I mentioned that I made the decision to be a Christian in 1999, many years after leaving "Christianity" (or being a "religious" person). In '99 I truly intended to be a follower of Jesus, though I knew I was an active alcoholic at that time.

After a few more years of going in & out of Alcoholics Anonymous (I had initially gone to it in 1987 with periods of sobriety here & there)...I found a 'Christian' 12 Step meeting...(Jan. 2005)...and totally enjoyed being able to talk about God, Jesus, and the Bible there!

In April 2005 I took 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 seriously (a section of text I had been "ignoring," (for lack of vocab.). These verses state an alcoholic will not inherit God's Kingdom, and that if one is a Christian, the "alcoholic (drunkard)" is a past tense thing. That is, if one is a believer, one is no longer an alcoholic. But I was still drinking and like an alcoholic! (with periods of sobriety, on and off) though I claimed to be---and know I was!---a Christian.

However, when I really believed my own alcoholism is in the past (tense) as the above text says, I've been able to stop-for-good! That is, till now, Amen!

I personally believe the Holy Spirit...(and/or God)..."allowed" me to continue in my sin of drinking in that, I simply hadn't come to the place of really trusting Christ to stop. Well, I did I want to stop, but was weak and gave in to the temptation, on & off....

Getting back to Michael's quote (above) and what some TTP folks said to me after I gave my testimony: I was "told" that before I stopped drinking I had never been truly saved. My prior experiences of becoming a Christian and even going to a Bible college (circa 1974, ff.) were "nil" according to these Calvinists: I was an 'unregenerate' person till I got biblically sober on April 23, 2005, they said. My previous experiences of God and Jesus were "imaginary," the Calvinists very strongly claimed.

Critique.
This kind of accusation/assessment is PLAYING GOD.
(And Michael's above quote is the same...but he certainly must not know it (?)....

When Calvinists "think" they can become The Judge of people's souls...(GOD!)...they are not right. It is this very sort of thing---"playing God"---that drives people away from "Christianity"...and, I pray, not from Christ.

May the Holy Spirit convict and teach them the truth, Amen!

I left "(man-made) religion" behind long ago and it was because I was a Christian that I finally attained full victory over alcohol. I know it to be so---and no one can "tell me otherwise." That is to say, it's not open for debate.

This article has topics other than Calvinism...and is actually very good...(other than the quote from my friend Michael, which would have been better left out, imo: The true issue about salvation is "now" stuff and no human being can "tell" someone they were never a Christian or they were "deluded" in thinking they ever were).

Only GOD knows the hearts.
Only GOD is GOD.

I'm open to discuss the other topics, Thanks. :)
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Post by _Homer » Wed May 14, 2008 1:39 pm

rick,

You wrote:
Getting back to Michael's quote (above) and what some TTP folks said to me after I gave my testimony: I was "told" that before I stopped drinking I had never been truly saved. My prior experiences of becoming a Christian and even going to a Bible college (circa 1974, ff.) were "nil" according to these Calvinists: I was an 'unregenerate' person till I got biblically sober on April 23, 2005, they said. My previous experiences of God and Jesus were "imaginary," the Calvinists very strongly claimed.
I have a somewhat similar story, having left Christ for many years and then come back. The history of Calvinism is littered with stories of the great damage it has done and continues to do. Telling someone who returns to Christ that they were never saved is abominable, and that is putting it mildly. If they once believed they were saved, but were not, and now again think they are saved, how do they know they aren't fooling themselves again? That they are one of the "elect", or not? They can not know, and Calvin admitted this. After all, God only loves some and hates the rest.
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Post by __id_2626 » Wed May 14, 2008 1:57 pm

I have to admit the letter confuses me in that he says at one point...

"I am talking about those who are leaving Christ. "

and then says...

"Of course, as one who believes that a true Christian cannot ever lose their salvation, I believe that one who leaves the faith was not truly ever of the faith (1 John 2:19). "

First, if one believes that they can never lose their salvation, then why is he alarmed about those who are leaving Christ? It doesn't make sense to me... Again I must be missing some theological point here. ????

Doug
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Post by _Rick_C » Wed May 14, 2008 4:12 pm

Hi Homer, you wrote: I have a somewhat similar story, having left Christ for many years and then come back. The history of Calvinism is littered with stories of the great damage it has done and continues to do. Telling someone who returns to Christ that they were never saved is abominable, and that is putting it mildly. If they once believed they were saved, but were not, and now again think they are saved, how do they know they aren't fooling themselves again? That they are one of the "elect", or not? They can not know, and Calvin admitted this. After all, God only loves some and hates the rest.
What is sad to me is...former Christians who had been Calvinists...who think they were never truly saved. By "saved" I mean the initial coming into Christ, as distinct from [our] final salvation, which is yet to come.

I can't begin to imagine the bitterness that people have along these lines. Being taught Calvinism, and with their loss of faith; they become very bitter and disillusioned with "Christianity"...and "Christ" (Christ???).

Timely question is: Have they really rejected Jesus? or Calvinism?
The God they thought they could trust has been portrayed by Calvinism as untrustable.

Put another way, Michael's "Christ(ianity)" is incorrect; a false dichotomy, imo. Rejecting Jesus is one thing; rejecting religion or a particular religious system is quite another! There is "Christianity" and then there is "Christ" and the two do not necessarily always meet or are attached.

At one time I thought I had possibly rejected Jesus...or felt that I was getting close to fully doing it. But on much reflection, I now realize that I simply confused "some doctrines and thought patterns" of certain schools of "Christianity" with the real and true religion of Jesus Christ Our Lord: The religion that is both about him and also from (or of) him....
Hello Douglas, nice to meet you. I see where you wrote:I have to admit the letter confuses me in that he says at one point...

"I am talking about those who are leaving Christ. "

and then says...

"Of course, as one who believes that a true Christian cannot ever lose their salvation, I believe that one who leaves the faith was not truly ever of the faith (1 John 2:19). "

First, if one believes that they can never lose their salvation, then why is he alarmed about those who are leaving Christ? It doesn't make sense to me... Again I must be missing some theological point here. ????
I'm going to "guess" that, in Calvinist thinking, when a person falls away from faith in Christ, it comes as a "big surprise" to Calvinists. That is, when in all respects a person who appeared to be saved, acted saved, and probably was saved, turned out to be "deceived" or otherwise, self-deluded (delusional)...must be how the Calvinist sees this.

Unfortunately, and I regret having to say this and feel I must; to tell a person their former faith was a "delusion" is tantamount to telling them they had been mentally ill (I don't like saying this either, folks, I really and truly don't)!

Non-Calvinists, of course, don't believe a former faith means a person was delusional, or that the salvation was imaginary or false. A certain "horror" of the possibility of "losing faith" must rest in the back of every committed Calvinist's mind. But like you say, Douglas, if such a thing were to occur, they would then believe they never had faith to begin with; so why such a "big surprise"?

I'm not saying Calvinists have no basis for assurance. They do. Much in the same way as Non-Calvinists: by persevering to the end (which both camps believe in and advocate). Where Nons and Calvinists differ is on present assurance in terms of what it means. Nons see faith with assurance as continually in the present tense; current and active, which must be retained, and can be lost. If faith is lost and one forsakes God...the person, and not God, is at fault.

For all of the assurance of salvation texts that Calvinists quote (which Non-Calvinists quote and believe also); it is truly sad that Calvinists can't say with absolute assurance, "I am saved."

Some may claim it, as many former Calvinists---and Ex-Christians---have.
Again, as one who went through a prolonged period of sifting through "religion" to get to God; have these people truly rejected the Lord? Or Calvinism?

I, for one, will ask former believers if they had been a Calvinist, if and when I come across their paths....

O Lord, Have Mercy, Deliver us ALL from man-made religion!!!
Thanks.
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Post by _Jim » Fri May 16, 2008 8:49 am

I don't know if you have ever read River of Fire by ALEXANDRE KALOMIROS but it my be interesting to you as it deals with the spread of atheism in the west.

http://www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm
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