Eternal life and immortality
Re: Eternal life and immortality
Romans 2:6-10
For He will render to everyone according to his works.
To those who by perseverance in well-doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,
He will give eternal life, but for those who are self-seeking and are not persuaded by the truth,
but are persuaded by unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.
Affliction and anguish for every person who does evil, but glory and honour and well-being for
every one who does good... for God shows no partiality.
If everyone is going to be immortal after the resurrection, why should anyone SEEK IMMORTALITY???
For He will render to everyone according to his works.
To those who by perseverance in well-doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,
He will give eternal life, but for those who are self-seeking and are not persuaded by the truth,
but are persuaded by unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.
Affliction and anguish for every person who does evil, but glory and honour and well-being for
every one who does good... for God shows no partiality.
If everyone is going to be immortal after the resurrection, why should anyone SEEK IMMORTALITY???
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Eternal life and immortality
They seek it because they do not have it yet.Paidion wrote:If everyone is going to be immortal after the resurrection, why should anyone SEEK IMMORTALITY???
Rom 8:24-25
24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?
25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
They must wait until the resurrection for immortality.
Such is not the case with Eternal life, which is something we are given now - in this life. In Christ we are transformed by the renewing of our minds unto a new life; no more a life of self-indugence, envy, lust, strife and guilt, but transformed through yielding to the Spirit at work within us unto the joy and peace of eternal life.
Todd
Re: Eternal life and immortality
To reiterate my main premise of this thread, let me say this....
The meaning of immortality is "living forever" and it describes our condition after the resurrection. Conversely, the meaning of eternal life is the "kind of life experienced through knowing the Eternal God" and it describes the condition of the faithful in this life.
With this in mind, how might we understand this familiar verse?
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
The word "perish" here has the opposite meaning of "eternal life", as it describes the kind of life experienced by someone who is overcome in sin. The prodigal son was said to have been "lost". Lost is the same greek word used for perish. It should be noted that the prodigal son was very much alive - but in a very bad state - when he had filled his life with riotous living. He was lost (perished).
I believe this verse is primarily contrasting two different paths for our life on this earth. One which is exceedingly favorable through faith in Christ; the other, which is devastating, comes through self-indulgence.
But here is the question, how does faith in Christ affect our life after the resurrection and immortality? This verse doesn't address that, but there are others that do.
Those who are faithful in this life will be raised first in the resurrection. These are called "the sons of God". This is explained by Paul in three different verses (Rom 8:18-23, 1 Cor 15:23, 1 Thess 4:16). There are very few verses which plainly speak of the resurrection and what life will be like. Here is one.
Matt 22:30
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
We also know that both the "just and the unjust" will participate.
Acts 24:15
I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.
Perhaps some of you have some references which speak of immortality after the resurrection.
Todd
The meaning of immortality is "living forever" and it describes our condition after the resurrection. Conversely, the meaning of eternal life is the "kind of life experienced through knowing the Eternal God" and it describes the condition of the faithful in this life.
With this in mind, how might we understand this familiar verse?
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
The word "perish" here has the opposite meaning of "eternal life", as it describes the kind of life experienced by someone who is overcome in sin. The prodigal son was said to have been "lost". Lost is the same greek word used for perish. It should be noted that the prodigal son was very much alive - but in a very bad state - when he had filled his life with riotous living. He was lost (perished).
I believe this verse is primarily contrasting two different paths for our life on this earth. One which is exceedingly favorable through faith in Christ; the other, which is devastating, comes through self-indulgence.
But here is the question, how does faith in Christ affect our life after the resurrection and immortality? This verse doesn't address that, but there are others that do.
Those who are faithful in this life will be raised first in the resurrection. These are called "the sons of God". This is explained by Paul in three different verses (Rom 8:18-23, 1 Cor 15:23, 1 Thess 4:16). There are very few verses which plainly speak of the resurrection and what life will be like. Here is one.
Matt 22:30
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
We also know that both the "just and the unjust" will participate.
Acts 24:15
I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.
Perhaps some of you have some references which speak of immortality after the resurrection.
Todd
Re: Eternal life and immortality
Todd wrote:They seek [immortality] because they do not have it yet.
Todd, this doesn't make sense. If you KNEW you were going to get a raise from your boss, you wouldn't seek a raise. You wouldn't ask your boss for a raise. It would be a "done deal" even before you received it.They must wait until the resurrection for immortality.
If immortality is inevitable for all, then it makes no sense to seek it. There's nothing for which to seek. It's a "done deal".
One would seek immortality, only if one were concerned that he might not obtain it.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Eternal life and immortality
Paidion,Paidion wrote:Todd wrote:They seek [immortality] because they do not have it yet.Todd, this doesn't make sense. If you KNEW you were going to get a raise from your boss, you wouldn't seek a raise. You wouldn't ask your boss for a raise. It would be a "done deal" even before you received it.They must wait until the resurrection for immortality.
If immortality is inevitable for all, then it makes no sense to seek it. There's nothing for which to seek. It's a "done deal".
One would seek immortality, only if one were concerned that he might not obtain it.
Faith is the substance of things not yet seen. Until the resurrection actually happens, and immortality is realized, then it is merely something to be sought after. We believe it will happen because we have faith in the One who promised it.
Todd
Re: Eternal life and immortality
So if you believed you were going to get a raise from your boss, you would still seek one?
If I were seeking a raise, then I would be unsure whether or not I was going to get one.
If I seek immortality, then I am unsure whether or not I am going to gain it. If I am sure, that is, if I am absolutely certain that I am going to have immortality, then it makes no sense for me to seek it.
If I were seeking a raise, then I would be unsure whether or not I was going to get one.
If I seek immortality, then I am unsure whether or not I am going to gain it. If I am sure, that is, if I am absolutely certain that I am going to have immortality, then it makes no sense for me to seek it.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Eternal life and immortality
Paidion,Paidion wrote:So if you believed you were going to get a raise from your boss, you would still seek one?
If I were seeking a raise, then I would be unsure whether or not I was going to get one.
If I seek immortality, then I am unsure whether or not I am going to gain it. If I am sure, that is, if I am absolutely certain that I am going to have immortality, then it makes no sense for me to seek it.
Getting a raise is an everyday occurance in this life. On the otherhand, being resurrected to immortality has only happened once (Jesus) and there were only a few eyewitnesses of that. The rest of us must take it in faith. If it were a frequent occurance then we could know, but since it is not, we seek it patiently. At this point it is our hope. I'll quote this once again.
Rom 8:24-25
24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
Paidion, if you believe in universal reconciliation, wouldn't that also include universal immortality at some point?
Todd