Sorry if this was addressed elsewhere... please point me to the existing topic post if that is the case...
I'm kind of new to the different views of hell. I had heard of Annihilation before, but kind of wrote it off because I thought most just held the view of Eternal Torment. So... I was reading through Revelation and when I came to Revelation 20:10-15 I wondered how alternative views interpreted these passages.
The lake of fire contains the devil, beast, and false prophet where they are tormented day and night forever and ever
Then here, it talks about anyone not found written in the Book of Life being cast into the same lake of fire. Since it does not mention the phrase "forever and ever" would the other views hold that it was temporary (either to destruction or otherwise)?
Eternal Torment in Revelation 20
Re: Eternal Torment in Revelation 20
There are several ways that different views explain these verses. My explanation would work with any of the three views of hell.
I see Revelation as a symbolic drama, in which non-personal entities—like "death," "hades," governmental opposition to the church, religious opposition to the church, and the "great city," Jerusalem/Babylon—are personified as acting characters. This is a little like the drama that Paul presents in Romans 5:13-21, where "sin," "death," "the law" and "grace" are all depicted as players in a drama, coming onto the stage at different points. We are familiar with this kind of drama in a book like "Pilgrim's Progress"—where, for instance, "Prudence," and "Charity" are depicted as lovely maidens, "Despair" is a giant with a club, etc. It is a good way to get a spiritual lesson across, so long as people don't take the symbolism too literally.
In Revelation, "Roman authority," "civil war" and "famine" are all symbolically portrayed as sequential riders on horses. "Death" appears early-on, as an ruthless horseman, followed by a footman, who represents Hades, gathering up the dead. The church, at one point, is pictured as two witnesses/prophets. Demonic powers are depicted as mutant locust-things that arise from a bottomless pit. Jesus is depicted as a Lamb (which later is morphed into a warrior on a white horse) at war with a dragon, who is the devil. Earthly Jerusalem and Heavenly Jerusalem are depicted as two women—a harlot and a faithful bride, respectively. The former (similar to Jezebel) comes to an ugly end in the jaws of a wild beast, while the princess bride marries the hero. There are thrones in heaven for the faithful good guys, and a "lake of fire" for the bad ones. It would make a great fairy tale—except that it is true. It is a true story draped in a fairy-tale-like drama.
It is, I think, a mistake to see any of these features as strictly literal, and some of them are plainly impossible to take literally. Some of the chief bad guys get tossed into the lake of fire—the dragon, the two beasts, Death and Hades, and eventually all those who followed them. It is said of some of them (and may well have been said of them all) that they were "tormented day and night forever and ever."
I believe that this phrase, like the other features of the drama, is for effect, to show that they truly get their just deserts. The literalness of such a phrase need not be assumed any more than the literalness of the famous storybook ending—"and they lived happily ever after." None of the characters in storybooks are literally meant to live forever. The phrase is for effect. The worshippers of the beast are said to be tormented in the presence of the Lamb (this is for effect. It can hardly be thought that Jesus has nothing better to do for eternity than to watch people broil). It says that "the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever" (Rev.14:11). This ever-ascending smoke is an image that first applied to the destruction of Edom, in Isaiah 34:10, and also is a feature of the punishment of the harlot (Rev.19:3), but without the need for the lake of fire in either case.
I see Revelation as a symbolic drama, in which non-personal entities—like "death," "hades," governmental opposition to the church, religious opposition to the church, and the "great city," Jerusalem/Babylon—are personified as acting characters. This is a little like the drama that Paul presents in Romans 5:13-21, where "sin," "death," "the law" and "grace" are all depicted as players in a drama, coming onto the stage at different points. We are familiar with this kind of drama in a book like "Pilgrim's Progress"—where, for instance, "Prudence," and "Charity" are depicted as lovely maidens, "Despair" is a giant with a club, etc. It is a good way to get a spiritual lesson across, so long as people don't take the symbolism too literally.
In Revelation, "Roman authority," "civil war" and "famine" are all symbolically portrayed as sequential riders on horses. "Death" appears early-on, as an ruthless horseman, followed by a footman, who represents Hades, gathering up the dead. The church, at one point, is pictured as two witnesses/prophets. Demonic powers are depicted as mutant locust-things that arise from a bottomless pit. Jesus is depicted as a Lamb (which later is morphed into a warrior on a white horse) at war with a dragon, who is the devil. Earthly Jerusalem and Heavenly Jerusalem are depicted as two women—a harlot and a faithful bride, respectively. The former (similar to Jezebel) comes to an ugly end in the jaws of a wild beast, while the princess bride marries the hero. There are thrones in heaven for the faithful good guys, and a "lake of fire" for the bad ones. It would make a great fairy tale—except that it is true. It is a true story draped in a fairy-tale-like drama.
It is, I think, a mistake to see any of these features as strictly literal, and some of them are plainly impossible to take literally. Some of the chief bad guys get tossed into the lake of fire—the dragon, the two beasts, Death and Hades, and eventually all those who followed them. It is said of some of them (and may well have been said of them all) that they were "tormented day and night forever and ever."
I believe that this phrase, like the other features of the drama, is for effect, to show that they truly get their just deserts. The literalness of such a phrase need not be assumed any more than the literalness of the famous storybook ending—"and they lived happily ever after." None of the characters in storybooks are literally meant to live forever. The phrase is for effect. The worshippers of the beast are said to be tormented in the presence of the Lamb (this is for effect. It can hardly be thought that Jesus has nothing better to do for eternity than to watch people broil). It says that "the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever" (Rev.14:11). This ever-ascending smoke is an image that first applied to the destruction of Edom, in Isaiah 34:10, and also is a feature of the punishment of the harlot (Rev.19:3), but without the need for the lake of fire in either case.
Re: Eternal Torment in Revelation 20
Jarrod,
As I see it, Rev 20 has some similarities to a statement made by John the Baptist. Speaking of the coming of the Holy Spirit, John said that Christ would baptize with the Spirit and with Fire. There are two aspects of the Spirit; one is life-giving for those who follow in faith, the other is a tormenting conviction for those who are disobedient (John 16:8). The latter is the Baptism of Fire of which John spoke and it is also portrayed as the Lake of Fire in Rev 20. Paul said,...
Acts 17:30
Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
The conviction of the Holy Spirit is a method which God employs in calling all men everywhere to repent. There is no rest, nowhere to hide from this call; it continues unabated like an "everlasting" torment....until one repents. This is how I view the Lake of Fire.
Conversely, Rev 20 also talks about those who take part in the First Resurrection. These are those who pass from death to life in response to the Spirit's call. Jesus spoke of this in John 5.
John 5
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Todd
As I see it, Rev 20 has some similarities to a statement made by John the Baptist. Speaking of the coming of the Holy Spirit, John said that Christ would baptize with the Spirit and with Fire. There are two aspects of the Spirit; one is life-giving for those who follow in faith, the other is a tormenting conviction for those who are disobedient (John 16:8). The latter is the Baptism of Fire of which John spoke and it is also portrayed as the Lake of Fire in Rev 20. Paul said,...
Acts 17:30
Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
The conviction of the Holy Spirit is a method which God employs in calling all men everywhere to repent. There is no rest, nowhere to hide from this call; it continues unabated like an "everlasting" torment....until one repents. This is how I view the Lake of Fire.
Conversely, Rev 20 also talks about those who take part in the First Resurrection. These are those who pass from death to life in response to the Spirit's call. Jesus spoke of this in John 5.
John 5
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Todd