Alternative Views of Hell

[Guest]

Ryan, The fact is that most of the people in my life are unbelievers and the thought that they will be sentenced to eternal torment in hell is hard for me to swallow. They are not any better or worse people than me it's just that they have'nt appreciated the character of God which requires Godly righteousness. So if there is a possibility that they can be saved after this life i want to know. Not that it would change my approach or outlook it's just that i would like to know. I understand that despite the command to "love our neighbor" my instinct tells me that most Christians feel uncomfortable with the idea despite what they say.

[Guest]

Thanks for your reply Steve -

I, too, have lost friends and family, and the weight of it all is truly difficult to take. Something indeed I must lay down at Christ's feet, because I can not take the burden.

However, I must continue to remember that the reason these souls are "lost" is because they have sinned against a Holy God and have no answer before Him. God "takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked", but desires that "all men should come to repentance", and I believe gives people every chance to turn unto Him as their only hope. However, time and again, people love their sin and deny God's free offer of salvation.

I must realize that the reason that God can not accept them isn't because "they just aren't religious" or "dont understand much about God's character", but because God has given them life and breath, and they have been idolators, liars, thieves, and adulterers at heart (And so have I!) and therefore can not inherit the kingdom.

If God is truly perfect, and his eyes too pure to look upon sin (Hab. 1:13), then he can not allow anything less than perfection into His kingdom. Thank God for Christ Jesus, who Himself is our righteousness and perfection, the good news and author of our salvation and redemption. But, the Bible says the lost "obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Thess. 1 verse 8 ) and therefore are reserved for eternal judgment.

If I break the law, I must pay a fine. We broke God's law, and therefore must pay the penalty of death ("The soul that sins shall die" Ezek. 18:4).
The good news is, Jesus paid our fine for us at the cross, bringing us into a righteousness that is by faith in His finished work of atonement.

And Jesus is the only payment God accepts, because He is the only spotless, worthy sacrifice. How much more should this motivate us to pray for these souls to receive the Lord Jesus and believe upon Him? Even now I feel convicted over lost souls that I fail to pray for, that they would forsake their sin, repent, and believe in the Lord Jesus!

Charles Spurgeon said: "If sinners be dammed, at least let them leap to Hell over our bodies. If they will perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees. Let no one go there unwarned and unprayed for."

If there be any other way to heaven, or any other chance possible for these perishing, I know of none. But what a shame it would be if we spent our time trying to find another way when all along there was only one and we neglected to show it!

I pray that your lost friends will give their lives to Jesus, and that we ourselves will more wholeheartedly!

[Guest]

Curiously enough - the webmaster of SermonIndex.net has posted some things of late on this topic, and has included what some of the early church fathers believed about this subject. Let their views be expressed here as well:

IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH: "Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death, how much more if a man corrupt by evil teaching the faith of God for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him" (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1–2 [A.D. 110]) -

CLEMENT: "If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment" (Second Clement 5:5 [A.D. 150]).

JUSTIN MARTYR: "[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons" (First Apology 52 [A.D. 151]).

POLYCARP: "Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire" (Martyrdom of Polycarp 2:3 [A.D. 155]).

IRENAEUS: "The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . t is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, ‘Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire,’ they will be damned forever" (ibid., 4:28:2).

TERTULLIAN: "After the present age is ended he will judge his worshipers for a reward of eternal life and the godless for a fire equally perpetual and unending" (Apology 18:3 [A.D. 197]).

HIPPOLYTUS: "Standing before [Christ’s] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: ‘Just is your judgment!’ And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them" (Against the Greeks 3 [A.D. 212]).

TERTULLIAN: "Then will the entire race of men be restored to receive its just deserts according to what it has merited in this period of good and evil, and thereafter to have these paid out in an immeasurable and unending eternity. Then there will be neither death again nor resurrection again, but we shall be always the same as we are now, without changing. The worshipers of God shall always be with God, clothed in the proper substance of eternity. But the godless and those who have not turned wholly to God will be punished in fire equally unending, and they shall have from the very nature of this fire, divine as it were, a supply of incorruptibility" (Apology 44:12-13 [A.D. 197]).

LACTANTIUS: "[T]he sacred writings inform us in what manner the wicked are to undergo punishment. For because they have committed sins in their bodies, they will again be clothed with flesh, that they may make atonement in their bodies; and yet it will not be that flesh with which God clothed man, like this our earthly body, but indestructible, and abiding forever, that it may be able to hold out against tortures and everlasting fire, the nature of which is different from this fire of ours, which we use for the necessary purposes of life, and which is extinguished unless it be sustained by the fuel of some material. But that divine fire always lives by itself, and flourishes without any nourishment. . . . The same divine fire, therefore, with one and the same force and power, will both burn the wicked and will form them again, and will replace as much as it shall consume of their bodies, and will supply itself with eternal nourishment. . . . Thus, without any wasting of bodies, which regain their substance, it will only burn and affect them with a sense of pain. But when [God] shall have judged the righteous, he will also try them with fire" (Divine Institutes 7:21 [A.D. 307]).

CYRIL OF JERUSALEM: "We shall be raised therefore, all with our bodies eternal, but not all with bodies alike: for if a man is righteous, he will receive a heavenly body, that he may be able worthily to hold converse with angels; but if a man is a sinner, he shall receive an eternal body, fitted to endure the penalties of sins, that he may burn eternally in fire, nor ever be consumed. And righteously will God assign this portion to either company; for we do nothing without the body. We blaspheme with the mouth, and with the mouth we pray. With the body we commit fornication, and with the body we keep chastity. With the hand we rob, and by the hand we bestow alms; and the rest in like manner. Since then the body has been our minister in all things, it shall also share with us in the future the fruits of the past" (Catechetical Lectures 18:19 [A.D. 350])

"Beloved, the eternal torment of men is no joy to God."
- Charles Spurgeon

[Guest]

Ryan, I completely agree that Christ is the only way now and forever and i am eternally grateful that we can be alive in Christ. But much more people don't comprehend Christ and God than willfully reject him. I was one of those people until recently because all i knew about Christ was what i was told. So when i state my position i try to present scripture but most of the responses have been opinions and opinions shaped by what was taught. We are told by Paul that "the saints will judge the world" so if unbelievers are destroyed or eternally kept in hell than there isn't anything to judge is there. But in Rev 22.17 "the Bride" (that's us) is speaking to someone out there about drinking from the water of life.

[Guest]

Damon,

Are you stating, in your study mentioned above, and in your comments here, that you have got it all figured out and know what you say to be true, or are you speculating and posting your ideas.

Hi Mike.

It's kind of hard to answer you one way or the other, actually. IMHO, this is more than just speculation on my part, but on the other hand it's not directly and explicitly taught in Scripture.

I'm basing all of this on a study of biblical symbolism that I've been doing for several years now, and yes, I do believe that I've figured out the how's and why's of biblical symbolism almost completely. The reason that I'm so certain is twofold. One, I've compared biblical symbolism and motifs with that of the other ancient cultures which existed at the same time in history, and I've found many, many parallels that help to explain biblical symbolism in greater depth than the bible itself does. Two, I believe that I've also hit upon a key method of interpreting the symbolism of the Old Testament account, because much of it is structured in a very particular way in the original language. You may have noticed me talking about it in other threads (like this one). It's called a chiasmus.

It's principally the former - the parallels between biblical symbolism and that of other ancient cultures, that is - that points the way towards a proper understanding of what I explained above, IMO.

Damon

[mgarrett]

The more I read about Universalism the more I believe there is some merit to it. One of the most compelling arguments for it is this: If the vast majority of mankind is destined for eternal torment in hell then Satan is the bigger victor for the souls of men than are God and Christ. I believe that the Bible plainly teaches that Satan is defeated and that Jesus came to "destroy the works of the Devil". Also, how can one, who truly loves his neighbor, enjoy the "peace which passes all understanding" when armed with the thought that he may be damned to eternal torment?

Here is a link to an interesting comparison of Calvanism, Universalism and Armenianism.

http://www.gospelfortoday.org/jteachings/calarmuniv.htm

Todd

[Guest]

There are 3 seperate verses that say every knee shall bow and every tongue confess Jesus as Lord. Isaiah 45.23 , Romans 14.11, Phil 3.9
There are many people who say that, yes all will bow their knees,and if they don't God will break their knees and force them to confess that "Jesus is Lord" but Paul said something different.
" No man CAN SAY that Jesus is the Lord BUT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT." 1 Cor 12.3
But since the kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom if you are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and confess Jesus as Lord are'nt you part of the kingdom?
Did'nt scripture say every man will.

[Guest]

Todd,

Followed the link and I must say that much of what is said about the Armenian position is false. (Or there are more than three categories and I fit in none).

In Christ, Homer

[mgarrett]

Todd,

Followed the link and I must say that much of what is said about the Armenian position is false. (Or there are more than three categories and I fit in none).

In Christ, Homer

Homer,

I would suspect that there are many variations of all three.

Todd

[Guest]

"Universalism" as currently conceived seems to be the view that everyone will automatically end up in heaven ---- no relation to their life or manner of living. The Universalist-Unitarian Church is probably the most liberal church in Christendom. It is filled with atheists and other humanists.

Although I believe in the reconciliation of all things to God as stated in the New Testament, I try to avoid the appellation "universalist".

Those who will be in Gehenna, the Lake of Fire, will have to repent and submit to the authority of Christ in order to be acceptable to God ---- just like the rest of us.

Here are some reconciliation Scriptures for your consideration:

Some Scriptures Concerning the Reconciliation of All Things to God

Colossians 1:19,20
For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Ephesians 1:9,10
For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the secret of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fulness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

Romans 5:18
Then as one man’s trespass [Adam’s] led to condemnation for all people, so one man’s act of righteousness [Christ’s] leads to acquittal and life for all people.

Philippians 2:9-11
Therefore God has highly exalted him [Christ] and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I Timothy 4:10
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Revelation 5:12-13
And I heard every created being in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, "To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might into the ages of ages.

Romans 11:32
For God has consigned all people to disobedience, that he may have mercy upon all.

Philippians 3:20,21
But our commonwealth is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power which enables him even to subject all things to himself.


1 Corinthians 15:22-28
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. "For God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "All things are put in subjection under him," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, that God may be everything to every one.