Top 10 UR Verses

Post by **_Sean** » Thu May 08, 2008 4:02 am

Thanks for your answer.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Fri May 09, 2008 9:49 pm

Romans 14:11 for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God."

The above verse is repeated three separate times first said in Isaiah 45.23. Three times so it must be important!

God can not lie
God's Word can not return void (Isa 55.11)
Scripture can not be broken (John 10.35)
God brings about his will

Post by **__id_2674** » Sun May 11, 2008 10:16 am

piadon,
that sounds like a page right outta Gregory Mcdonalds book. Have you read the Evangelical Universalist?

Aug

Post by **_Paidion** » Sun May 11, 2008 9:10 pm

Yes, I have read the book. But I wrote that post from the top of my head. I didn't knowingly use any material from that or any other book.

Post by **__id_2674** » Sun May 11, 2008 10:48 pm

Piadon,
Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling you out on stealing material : )

I simply noticed the coin analogy was what mcdonald uses in his book which led me to ask the question if you had read the book.

I liked that book alot. His revelation take was VERY INTRUIGING.

Aug

Post by **_Sean** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:34 am

STEVE7150 wrote:Romans 14:11 for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God."

The above verse is repeated three separate times first said in Isaiah 45.23. Three times so it must be important!

God can not lie
God's Word can not return void (Isa 55.11)
Scripture can not be broken (John 10.35)
God brings about his will

I'm not sure if you are suggesting this but I don't see how this is a UR arguement. Jesus said that many on that day will say "Lord Lord" and He will say "depart from me". So getting down on your knee and confessing Jesus as Lord doesn't mean salvation in every case, there seems to be more to it then that (like obedience). The passage you mention says "give praise to God". Remember, even the demons believe, but it doesn't do them any good. They may praise God, and rightly so. But they still await their torment at the appointed time.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Mon May 12, 2008 8:54 am

The passage you mention says "give praise to God". Remember, even the demons believe, but it doesn't do them any good. They may praise God, and rightly so. But they still await their torment at the appointed time.

The demons believe but they don't praise God thus this is more then believing isn't it. Isn't this a voluntary submission to the Lordship of Christ and since no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit does'nt this suggest He is present in this?
And if the Holy Spirit is present then the kingdom of God is present. The when and where is one of the secrets of God but it sounds to me like this is not a matter of God breaking everyone's kneecaps to call Jesus Lord but a voluntary confession.
And if you claim it will be to late, i don't see this explicitely stated in scripture anywhere, do you?

Post by **_mattrose** » Mon May 12, 2008 10:38 am

Just to clarify the difference of opinion above

Both UR & Non-UR's have to consider the following Scriptural phrase:
"that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. (Phil 2:10-11)

UR's link it to this verse...
"no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor. 12:3)

Non-UR's link it to this verse...
"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord'...I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" (Matthew 7:22-23)

Personally, I think it is obvious that 1 Cor. 12:3 is not true in a 'technical' sense. Truly, anyone can simply speak the words 'Jesus is Lord' and do so without the prompting of the Holy Spirit. So I don't think the UR verse links well. I don't think any of those 2 verses should be particularly linked to the first verse.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Mon May 12, 2008 11:42 am

Personally, I think it is obvious that 1 Cor. 12:3 is not true in a 'technical' sense. Truly, anyone can simply speak the words 'Jesus is Lord' and do so without the prompting of the Holy Spirit. So I don't think the UR verse links well. I don't think any of those 2 verses should be particularly linked to the first verse.

If this verse were meant in a technical sense it would be useless and misleading therefore i think it must mean to believe and accept Jesus as Lord in our hearts.
"Out of the mouth comes the abudance from the heart." This is what i think Paul has in mind.

Post by **_mattrose** » Mon May 12, 2008 11:51 am

Cool, we agree