Top 10 UR Verses

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Mon May 12, 2008 12:42 pm

Cool, we agree

Well i like to agree but maybe i'm missing something because i would link
Phil 2.10 and 1 Cor 12.3 in that someday somewhere everyone will confess Jesus as Lord through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Post by **_Paidion** » Mon May 12, 2008 1:15 pm

Mattrose wrote:Personally, I think it is obvious that 1 Cor. 12:3 is not true in a 'technical' sense. Truly, anyone can simply speak the words 'Jesus is Lord' and do so without the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

It would seem that two different words were used for "say" in this sentence:

Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus be cursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.

In the first instance "legō" (Strongs 3004) is used, and in the second "e'rō" (Strongs 2036) is used. It seems that the second word implies saying what one means. It is more like the English word "affirm".

... whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:23

Again, if one merely said "You fool" insincerely would not be in danger of hell fire. But the word seems to imply that one says it and means it.

Matthew 12:32 "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Again, one would have to mean it when one spoke a word against the Holy Spirit in order not to be forgiven.

So in I Cor 12:3, one cannot sincerely say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Spirit. So I think it is correct to link this verse to Phillipians 2:10,11

Post by **_Father_of_five** » Mon May 12, 2008 5:40 pm

"that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. (Phil 2:10-11)

One other point that should be made about this verse is the last line which says, "to the glory of God the Father." It is my opinion that God would not find any "glory" in a confession from someone He was about to destroy; however, He would find great joy in knowing that each soul had come to love and adore Him in a sincere, heartfelt way.

Todd

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Mon May 12, 2008 5:47 pm

One other point that should be made about this verse is the last line which says, "to the glory of God the Father." It is my opinion that God would not find any "glory" in a confession from someone He was about to destroy; however,

Very insightful observation Todd especially since God is love and would'nt this be a great manifestation of love and a confirmation that "God desires that everyone be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth."

Post by **__id_2674** » Mon May 12, 2008 9:06 pm

I agree with paidon and steve and Todd.

It seems that those of matt 7 who stand before God and say "lord lord" are hardly praising God.

Is the Isaiah prophecy stating that "I swear that every one will praise me (some with their lips)" would hardly do to make the point.

Isaiah seems to declare a very similar notion that Rev 5 declares:
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing:
"To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!"

This hardly seems like God is stepping on their necks to get this repsonse.

So it seems to me that it's a further reach to link phil 2 to matt 7. Now had Jesus said "On that day many will come and worship me and I will say depart from me for I never knew you" that would be more problematic to the UR view.

However it seems that the praise God gets is not lip service but of TRUE glorification.

Aug