Todd wrote:Paidion, do you believe that Jesus is still in the flesh at this very moment?
Yes, I do. He was raised in the flesh. His body didn't stay in the tomb. He ate fish with his disciples (Fish is pretty physical). When the disciples were frightened and thought they saw a ghost, He replied:
See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. Luke 24:39
Jesus said that the disciples saw that He had
FLESH AND BONES. Flesh and bones are quite physical, are they not? Yet His body was not mortal as is ours. He also had the ability to walk through closed doors. Perhaps His physical body was such that the molecules could pass through the molecules of the door. Also, immortal bodies would not be affected by passing into the upper atmosphere as will happen when those who are alive and remain (I Thess 4) are "changed" and "caught up together" with the raised saints who were previously dead.
If so, then he must reside in a physical location, right?
With regards to His resurrected, immortal body, He is in a particular location. It is written that He is in Heaven seated at the right hand of the Father. I really don't know how "physical" Heaven is. The Father is also particularly located there. But by their spirit, they can extend their personal consciousness to any location in the Universe, especially in the minds and hearts of the faithful. Thus Jesus was able to say that the Father and He would come and make their dwelling with the disciples after His departure.
How would you explain Paul's statements in this regard?
1 Cor 15:44
It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
The Greek word for "natural" is not used here. It is the Greek word for "soulish". I do admit that the English word "physical" is derived from this word. So, yes. Paul is contrasting the mortal physical body with immortal "spiritual" body. But this doesn't mean that the immortal body is "spirtual" in the sense of being a spirit. It is spiritual when compared to the mortal physical body, but is not a spirit.
1 Cor 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
I concur with Irenaeus who said that it was the heretics (gnostics) who claimed that our bodies are not raised but only our spirits. Irenaeus explained the passage by saying that Paul meant that
mere flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Flesh and blood must also possess the Spirit of God through regeneration in order to be fit for the Kingdom.
See
Against Heresies Book 5 Chapter 9 Sections 1,2,3
I am not aware of any scriptures which state that the resurrected bodies of the unrighteous will be any different than the righteous, do you?
No, I don't know of any which specifically state so. Yet it is strongly implied by the many statements that only some will rise immortal. We are to actually
seek immortality. (Romans 2:7). If everyone is going to be raised immortal, what is there to seek?
What about this passage in Romans Chapter 8 which is referring to "the redemption of the body" (v.23).
Romans 8:23 indeed refers to sonship as the redemption of our body. For when our walk in the narrow path is complete, we shall be fully mature sons, and will be resurrected. Jesus Himself will put the finishing touches upon us to complete our perfection. I don't see how this relates in any way to the resurrection of the others, whose resurrection does not even take place until after the millenium (yes, I'm a pre-millenialist who understand that "the rest of the dead" do not live again until after the 1000 years)
Rom 8:18-21
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
This passage makes it sound as if the unrighteous (the creation) will be resurrected with the same uncorruptible, glorious bodies as the children of God. Do you see this a different way?
Yes. The creation itself, all of it, will "be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." The second law of thermodynamics will be defeated. However, this is a process which will take a long time to complete. When it does, even the wicked, after their repentance and change of character which will occur in the Lake of Fire, will have achieved immortality too.
A valid question at this point: "How can the wicked live for ages in Gehenna if they have mortal bodies?" I am guessing that their mortal bodies will be preserved from death. This is not so far out, for the early Christian belief was that Enoch and Elijah have been preserved from death and still live in their mortal bodies today, at some location which God has chosen. They will return to earth some day as the "two witnesses" described in Revelation 11. Then the beast (the personal antichrist) will kill them, and after three days they will experience resurrection.
