Gehenna - Literal or Figurative?

[Paidion]

Regardless of the etymology of the word we refer to in English as "crisis", clearly the "krisis" in the scripture does not have the same meaning as 'crisis' does in English language usage today.

True. Nevertheless, there is a reason for that the English word "crisis" was derived from the Greek word "κρισις". The English word obviously does not have the same meaning, but the meaning is related --- perhaps because some people consider any crisis they undergo as a judgment from God.

[steve7150]

Regardless of the etymology of the word we refer to in English as "crisis", clearly the "krisis" in the scripture does not have the same meaning as 'crisis' does in English language usage today







I'm glad to hear this is clear to you. This is what's clear to me, Jesus is called the Savior of the world, it is said that Jesus will save men from their sins, not might , not some, but that he will save men. Yet during his first advent we see he spoke in parables so they would not understand, he spoke in John 6 in a way that he knew would cause many to fall away, the devil is said by Paul to blind the minds of unbelievers.
Therefore for the bible to make sense, to be not contradictory, there must be a process of salvation through his second advent when he judges. All through scripture references to judgment day refer to punishment and then restoration. That's what's clear to me.

[Homer]

Schoel wrote:

In order to make it say what you are trying to make it say, you would need it to read like:
"For if you forgive others their sins, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, your Father will never forgive you your sins."

Just an assumption on my part, but I think that is the gist of the parable of the unmerciful servant, unless the man in prison can come up with 60 million days' wages to pay what he owes.

[jerry62]

Given all the scripture in context, it's just amazing to me how people want to add in what seems "reasonable" to them in their own minds, rather than understand what is clearly stated. Jesus makes it clear. Clear implications that you can lose your life/soul (and obviously not referring to the death that all men will experience). Warnings that would otherwise be rendered as meaningless if Universal Reconciliation were true. Clear statements that not all will experience the kingdom of god/heaven or the marriage supper of the lamb. Paul says "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God." Yes, there is opportunity to repent, but the clear understanding is that if you don't, you will reap what you have sown, and you will not inherit the kingdom. When God personally and directly warned me of his wrath were I not to take following Him seriously, it was clear, just as it already is clear in the scripture. You don't want to end up in the "wrath" camp. If we don't take Christ seriously, we will. Yes, He is merciful, and He is patient, and He prunes us, and we grow (a bruised reed He will not break). But there is a clear difference for those that reject Him and His love, and those who refuse to take up their cross to follow!

[jerry62]

@Paidion,
Regardless of what some individuals think is happening when they go through a "crisis", the point is... in the context of the scripture, the references to "krisis" is totally different in meaning by definition, and should not be extended to our use of a newer term that is used in a totally different fashion.

[steve7150]

it was clear, just as it already is clear in the scripture. You don't want to end up in the "wrath" camp.






I don't want to be in the wrath camp but 98% of the world will be, as when Jesus spoke to a few hundred or a few thousand in Israel there were millions of people who never heard him across the world. Then afterward his word was hoarded by one church through the dark ages , so i'm not claiming no judgment or wrath , but i don't believe it's only for retribution but a part of a process to shape us to be children of God. That's the only way for justice to work otherwise salvation is akin to a lottery game or just being elected by God or not.

[jerry62]

@steve7150,
So then you don't believe that Paul wrote Romans or you don't believe that what he said was inspired or perhaps you just don't believe what is written is true, for example in Romans 1:18-31 or Romans 10:14-17. Even for those who literally never heard of Christ, there will be an accountability. We can be certain that God will truly be "fair", but what is truly fair will will not be established by your or me.

[steve7150]

So then you don't believe that Paul wrote Romans or you don't believe that what he said was inspired or perhaps you just don't believe what is written is true, for example in Romans 1:18-31 or Romans 10:14-17. Even for those who literally never heard of Christ, there will be an accountability. We can be certain that God will truly be "fair", but what is truly fair will will not be established by your or me.jerry62





I believe the entire bible not just a few verses plucked out from Romans and to me the bible speaks of a little flock of believers in this "aion" and punishment and redemption for most or possibly all of the rest of mankind after the resurrection.
You said you found several things to be amazing, what i find amazing is that folks who believe in eternal hell think that anything less then eternal punishment is no punishment at all.

[Homer]

Hi Steve7150
You wrote:

You said you found several things to be amazing, what i find amazing is that folks who believe in eternal hell think that anything less then eternal punishment is no punishment at all.

What do you base this statement on? Has someone said that or is this only your impression?

What I have observed is that many clear statements of facts concerning God (fact: that which has been done) and statements about what He will do in the future are ignored, denied, explained away, or discounted based on what a person believes about something in scripture of a broad and general nature. For example, the statement that "God is love" is taken to mean, in a person's opinion, whatever it is thought or felt to mean and the facts are made to fit opinion. The scriptures also say "God is a consuming fire" (a fire that utterly destroys), and both statements about God are true. A well known rule of interpretation is that the clear statements of scripture should be used to interpret the less clear but this rule is often turned on its head. The God of the New Testament is the same as the God of the old.

Some years ago a study was done regarding how decisions are made. The study found that in cases where there was a large amount of data available to be analyzed, a point was reached at which the greatest likeihood of the correct decision would be made. Analysis beyond that point only increased the likehood of an incorrect decision. And when more and more choices are considered a poor decision may be made, or no decision at all: paralysis by analysis.

We have a relative who is a professed atheist. Witnessing to this person to date has been futile. My dear wife would love for universalism to be true, yet she says "who can read their bible and believe in universalism"? Well, it can be done.

[jerry62]

I wonder why Jesus was so serious with his comments. He must have gone crazy! He didn't need to express himself with all of that hyperbole. He shouldn't have been so hard on those Pharisees. Similarly with Paul. Why was he warning us that we could be cut right out after we'd just been grafted in? Since in the end we'll all be one big happy family, there's no need to get so intense about these things. There's no concern for fearing the second death. Lake of fire, nothing. John should have reminded us that we all get back together in the end! What was he thinking anyway? Silly guy. Happy thoughts, happy thoughts. Too bad he didn't have the self-help books we have available today.

Seriously though, the language all throughout scripture is such that the messages are not meant to be taken lightly.