Alternative Views of Hell

[Guest]

Everyone, check out this website. It's food for thought.
http://www.christinyou.com/pages/universalism.html

[Guest]

I just read the article and it's mainly a philosphophical discussion against universalism. The interesting thing is that it's usually assummed that universalism automatically means that judgement is precluded and that is a doctrine that rightly offends many people. But it does'nt preclude judgement , it only precludes eternal judgement. And as i believe Todd and i showed there is still hope for the sinner even after they are thrown in the lake of fire. And it could be the milleneum may refer to a symbolic period of time in the lake of fire where one pays for their sins or perishes.

[Guest]

If the arguments for Christian Universalism were only philosophical in nature I would dismiss the possibility that it could be true. However, there are good scriptural arguments that back up the philosophical ones.

Christian Universalism does not violate any of the standards of Christianity with the exception of the duration of the sinner's stay in perdition. One must only accept that it is possible to find salvation after death as well as before.....but it can only be found through Christ alone.

Todd

[Guest]

Edward Fudge, does a very detailed study of this in his book 'the fire that consumes' he is a well respected scholar

[Guest]

It seems to depend on what your presuppositions are that you bring to the passages for either view.

[Guest]

Does anyone see any significance to Jesus comment on "everlasting fire" in Matt 25:41 when he says it was "prepared for the devil and his angels." I think it is interesting that he did not say it is prepared for unbelievers.

Matt 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Todd

[Guest]

Here is a site from which you can download several different chapters of a book called The Inescapable Love of God by Thomas Talbott. The author teaches philosophy at Williamette University in Salem, Oregon, and has published many articles in philosophical and theological journals on universalism. He employs both Scripture and logic in his support of universal salvation, and has been debated by many different philosophers and theologians.

If you don't wish to download all the chapters which are available for download, I especially recommend downloading and reading the chapter entiled Paul's Univeralism.

http://home.att.net/~t.b.talbott/


If you wish to obtain Professor Tabott's complete book, it can be purchases directly from him through his website.[/url]

[Guest]

Todd,

I consider that the statement in Matthew 25 tells us that the eternal fire was not originally prepared for humans, but for Satan and his confederates (strongly suggesting a defect in the Calvinist doctrine of God reprobating lost people to hell from eternity past).

However, the passage cannot be thought to teach that people will not go there, since the consignment of lost people to that place is exactly what the passage, in context, is describing. I think we must conclude that God had no original intention of judging people in that place, but their alignment with Satan and their decision to follow him will result in their ending up where he is destined to go.

[Guest]

Steve, I'm trying to consider your view at the moment and I'm still having trouble with John 5:28 when Jesus seems to be speaking of a resurrection of all people. I guess my question is, why is God resurrecting the wicked when they were already dead or annihilated? It doesn't seem like God's character to resurrect the wicked when they were already dead and then sentence them once again to death. Perhaps I'm not understanding this passage correctly.

If you've previously answered this question then I apoloize, but I tried to reach each and every response carefully, though I may have missed a couple. I'm considerding right now that outer darkness means unbelievers are prescribed to a real, physical place (hense the need for bodies) that is much like the world as it is right now, with the exception of God's love. It's a chilling though to consider but the bible seems to conclude this.

Anyway, my opinions on this change by the day so I'd like to reach a point where I'm more solid in my understanding.

[Guest]

Steve, thanks for your reply. I have another observation that I would appreciate your comments on. Please see the following scriptures....

Rom 1:28-32
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Here, in two places, Paul says that God's punishment for sin is death. He does NOT say that the wages of sin is eternal torture. Also, Jesus paid the price for our sin by dying. Can one conclude then that an unbeliever who dies has met the penalty for his unbelief?

Todd

Padion, thanks for that link. I am going to buy a copy of that book.