Our kind and merciful God

[Todd]

Luke 6:35-36
6:35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.
6:36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

This passage, from the mouth of Jesus, tells us God's attitude is toward the ungrateful and wicked. It would be difficult to harmonize this verse with ET or CI in my opinion. It seems to support UR.

Todd

[Suzana]

Hi Todd,

Although I personally haven't yet discounted the UR view, the verses you quoted (which I think are actually from Luke ), I think they probably could be harmonised with the other views (not that I believe ET teaching is valid).

Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you,
Mat 5:45 so that you may become sons of your Father in Heaven. For He makes His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

I think it could be argued that, yes, while the Lord is universally kind to all in that the earthly benefits are equally available to everyone, as is the offer of salvation, there is still a time of judgement coming for all; certainly God is merciful, but will also uphold justice.

Psa 89:14 Justice and judgment are the foundation of Your throne; mercy and truth shall go before Your face.

Col 3:24 knowing that from the Lord you shall receive the reward of the inheritance. For you serve the Lord Christ.
Col 3:25 But he who does wrong shall receive justice for the wrong which he did, and there is no respect of persons.

[mattrose]

Since people are mortal, this verse does seem to be evidence against a concept of God in which He keeps people alive so as to cause them to experience endless torture. But it doesn't seem to me the verse is saying anything about the response of the wicked to these acts of kindness. The evidence often indicates that kindness does not always create converts. Nor does the verse discuss our relation (or God's) to the wicked after their death. If we are to compare our relation to the wicked to God's, we might as well say that we are to be kind to them until their death (After which we, seemingly, cannot continue in kindness toward them). Likewise, God grants the wicked life, revelation, and love until their death (After which they are no longer able to access His blessings). In short, then, I'd say that the verse may be used against some forms of the eternal torment view, but it doesn't seem to provide much evidence against the conditional immortality viewpoint.

But I can't remember your particular view of UR. Does your view involve any form of 'fire' (literal or figurative) bringing the wicked to reconciliation?

[Todd]

But I can't remember your particular view of UR. Does your view involve any form of 'fire' (literal or figurative) bringing the wicked to reconciliation?

Yes, it does. But I believe the "fire" happens in our lifetime - not after death. The fire, I believe, is the condemnation or conviction of the Holy Spirit at work in the hearts of all mankind when we choose sin over righteousness. It is similar to the sentiment in the following verse.

Rom 12:20
Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head."

Todd

[Todd]

the verses you quoted (which I think are actually from Luke )

Corrected, thanks.

Todd

[Todd]

In short, then, I'd say that the verse may be used against some forms of the eternal torment view, but it doesn't seem to provide much evidence against the conditional immortality viewpoint.

Mattrose,

If the CI view includes a resurrection of the unjust, followed by some form of proportional punishment, followed by annihilation, I can see no kindness nor mercy in that view. However, if the unjust were to simply remain dead - and miss out on the resurrection - then I can view this as somewhat merciful, but not kind.

Todd

[mattrose]

I find the kindness and mercy to be this-worldly. God's kindness and mercy kept them alive despite their wickedness offering them numerous opportunities for repentance. It is by grace alone that we are snuffed out upon our first resistance to our maker.

To be honest, I view the UR view as more philosophical than biblical. If it is true, it is true b/c of certain features in God's nature that we can gather from Scripture. But Scripture, in my opinion, does not argue the UR position on its own terms.

[Jill]

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[Todd]

I find the kindness and mercy to be this-worldly. God's kindness and mercy kept them alive despite their wickedness offering them numerous opportunities for repentance. It is by grace alone that we are snuffed out upon our first resistance to our maker.

I not sure that kindness can be described as not killing someone when they do you wrong. This passage suggests that kindness is actually doing good unto your enemies - even those who are ungrateful and wicked. Also, to say that God's kindness stops at the end of this age seems unlikely. Is He not the same yesterday, today and forever?

Todd

[mattrose]

Not punishing His creatures for rebellion is mercy. Giving them grace, in its various forms, is kindness. It's not that God stops being kind and merciful after they die, it is that they are dead, no longer able to access His kindness and mercy.