SteveF,SteveF wrote:Thanks for the reply Todd. I understand the "but now" to simply refer to the fact that Gentiles, and not Jews only, are fully included in both the need to repent and the blessing of the covenant.
Just so I understand you correctly. Are you saying you think Paul's message is in fact different than yours and the reason is that you understand the "but now" statement to mean that God no longer shows his Goodness to unconverted people, hence granting them joy? (see aslo Luke 6:35, Matt 5:44-45). If I'm understanding you correctly then what is your biblical support for this? Also, if there has been a change then why would God mess up a good thing if hell is as you describe it? It seems that God has demonstrated he can grant people joy apart from the Gospel.
The principle reason God gives us new hearts is so we can obey Him (Ez 36:25-27, Jer 31:33-34). It seems evident to me that the core of Paul's message was turning to God from sin, not you're unhappy and I have the resolution for you.
Steve
Great questions! We actually see it much the same way. First of all, I believe that God is no respecter of persons, and that he rewards everyone according to their works. "Unconverted people" (as you put it) will be spiritually blessed by God in as much as their works are aligned to the Spirit. Also, the "converted person" who falls back into sinful ways will be convicted by the same Spirit. In this way, people are rewarded according to their works and reap what they sow.
God indeed shows His goodness to the unconverted in two ways; one, is that the rain falls on the just and unjust alike; second, is those who obey the Spirit will be spiritually blessed (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control). I believe the Spirit was poured out upon all flesh on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:17) and is at work in the hearts of all men everywhere in the world. Those who obey will be blessed for doing so (Heb 5:9); those who do not will be convicted (John 16:8). So, yes, I also believe that Paul's message was turning the people to God from sin. Sin not only harms the sinner himself, but also others (e.g., Tiger Woods family). God delights in the welfare of his people. Where sin is absent, love and charity abounds and his people rejoice. The Gospel is all about purging people from their sins so that justice and mercy can have their way in the lives of mankind.
The good news is that when Christ returns all of mankind will be freed from the bondage to decay (death) and will raised incorruptible in full submission to Christ (Rom 8:18-23). Here's another quote from Aaron regarding the resurrection.
So, as I see it, salvation comes in two parts; first, it comes for those who obey him in this life; second, it comes to all of mankind in the resurrection. Christ's death accomplished everything that God intended. Standard teaching today only allows for the salvation of a few, which makes Satan the greater victor in the end. My belief is that Satan loses everything in the end and is completely defeated.Aaron wrote:Now, in 1 Cor 2:14-15 and 3:1-3 Paul contrasts those who are "spiritual" with both those who are "of the flesh" and those who are "natural" (psuchikos) or "soulish" (as the Concordant Literal translation renders it). Being "of the flesh" and "natural" seems to describe those who are, to a greater or lesser degree, being driven or influenced by the animal aspect of our nature. Significantly, in chapter 15 where find Paul is contrasting our present mortal bodies with our future immortal bodies, he characterizes the former as "natural" and the latter as "spiritual." Now, as was the case in 1 Cor 2:14-15, the adjectives "spiritual" and "natural" do not describe the substance out of which something is made, but the force or principle that is animating or influencing it. And the fact that Paul makes the same distinction between "spiritual" and "natural" as he did earlier in this epistle suggests to me that Paul is trying to show that our resurrected bodies will be somehow under the governing influence of, and in harmony with, our "higher nature" in a way that our present bodies are not. That is, the "weakness" of our present nature will be replaced with that which is fully compatible with the "willingness" of our spirit. With the permanent removal of the animal aspect of our nature, those desires that sprang from it (and which produced a conflict with the moral aspect of our nature) will be no more. And with an absence of those desires which, when yielded to, lead to sin, sin will consequently be impossible to commit.
This would explain why Paul could say that, when death is abolished, sin (which he identifies as "the sting of death") will be no more (1 Cor 15:54-57). It is also significant that the "power" by which Christ will "transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body" is the same power by which he will also "subject all to himself" (Phil 3:20-21) - which, along with 1 Cor 15, suggests to me that the resurrection of the dead and the subjection of all people to Christ will be a single, instantaneous event. And, as Todd argued, if "death" is indeed the "last enemy" (and there is no indication that Paul has in view anything other than literal death in this chapter) then this presupposes that any other enemy (e.g., sin) will have been previously abolished.
Todd