What is this place? Where are my mum and dad?

[Ian]

Would I be right in assuming that Arminianism presupposes an "age of accountability", beyond which Romans 1 verse 20 begins to apply, but not before?

I drive "special needs" children to school, some being "merely" physically handicapped, some only intellectually challenged, some with behavioural problems but some all three. With few exceptions these carefree children are much happier than their often burdened parents. The conversation in my bus rarely ventures above the downright silly, puerile. I like it when it`s innocent but often it is cruel, judgemental and disrespectful. You know how children can be.

Sorry, I just don`t get this "age of accountability" thing. These children should not be condemned (on account of their age) but they would be lost and bewildered in heaven. And where are my mum and dad? Why aren`t they in this place? They put up with me all that time!

I guess that leaves me with Calvinism or Universalism. Or does it? What do you think?

[steve]

It is not necessary to embrace either Calvinism or Universalism in order to make sense of your conundrum. Another option is "Inclusivism," which allows Jesus to save any whose hearts He knows to incline toward the Truth and Light (which is Jesus—John 1:4, 9; 14:6). This could, theoretically, include people who have never heard the Gospel, or never heard it properly presented, but who have no aversion to righteousness and truth (John 3:19-21). It could also include people who are too mentally incapacitated to know and understand the Gospel. C.S. Lewis was of this viewpoint, though he was not universalist or Calvinist.

[Ian]

Very helpful. Thanks Steve.

I realize I posted this under the wrong section. Maybe Darin could move it, together with your reply?

[KyleB]

Also, I don't know that we must assume that they would "lost and bewildered" in heaven. I would think that mental handicaps, just like other results of the fallen world, would be removed after death. (e.g. "we know in part")

[jriccitelli]

I don’t know for sure but as I mentioned in Richs 'Creation of Souls' topic; a person's spirit could be fully functionable but our machinery (our body of atoms) may have flaws and handicaps. (example; 'You' are not handicapped but the car you are driving has a broken speedometer, or maybe never came with one). It seems to me handicapped people are more likely to be Christian than those w/o difficulties. Many of the handicapped I know do have cheerful personalities and spirits, and many know Christ.
'Us' and 'our' computer is an amazing example of the dichotomy between our brain and our spirit. The person with mental and thinking complications may well have a fully functional spirit, just as we can remember things and function w/o a computer yet we also need the computer to remember and function in the world as we know it.

A very close friend of ours has a severely handicapped (by these worlds' standards) daughter who seems to have a clear understanding and affection for Jesus that her mom does not seem to have, although her mom is 'religious'.
I think 'all' children are more in tune with God than adults, as adults we get tainted by worldly desires and beliefs.

[Ian]

Many of the handicapped I know do have cheerful personalities and spirits

I`m with you there, jr. Especially those with down`s syndrome and similar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xow2gnVTUjs

I think 'all' children are more in tune with God than adults

Not quite so with you there, though. You should be a fly on the wall in my bus for half an hour!

[jeremiah]

Not quite so with you there, though. You should be a fly on the wall in my bus for half an hour!

i think it was kyleb who said on another thread how he wished there was a "like" button, i do to sometimes. the fly on the wall statement gave me a good laugh. even though i heartily agree with jr's sentiment. grace and peace...

[jriccitelli]

Young boys + young girls + disabilities + school bus = adventure

When my job disappeared after the dotcom fallout a friend asked me to help him supervise a couple of facilities that employed and trained the handicapped and the mentally disabled to do jobs, called 'Hope', a really wonderful operation.
So I grinned and grimaced too when I read of your occupation, and although the mentally disabled I worked with were young adults the behavior could quickly veer way off the road. Still I saw improvement in my short time there, and I suspect many have been making improvements and choices all their life, albeit slowly.

Like Kyle said; 'results of the fallen World, would be removed after death', we will receive a new body 'and' mind. There is a line of belief that says Christ died for all and until we willingly disobey God we are still not completely guilty of disobedience, and I suspect that is the reasoning behind the idea of an age of accountability. So I suppose 'if' there is an age of accountability, God will reasonably extend it for those who cannot make such decisions.
All of our Lords decisions are His decisions. His decisions are full of grace, and if God wills to save a certain person, who can argue with Him. God is not 'forced' to make a decision based on our works or performance, maybe it's something else.
God is always fair, and Gods word does show special compassion on the poor and disabled.

(Remember, I am not in anyway a Calvinist)

[jriccitelli]

I wanted to say how much I enjoyed the video on You Tube that 'Ian' linked in his post.
I had no idea what this would be, I was in tears it was so good.
This was the best depiction I have ever seen of what it might be like finding yourself (or waking up) in heaven after this life, the joy and amazement. I watched it a week ago and I still think about it everyday. Although I do not think it was necessarily planned as a video about heaven depiction, its hard to tell (I don’t know about the guy in the blue and the one in the yellow) but either way this was amazing, as was the song lyrics 'its you'.
Again here is Ian's link to the video;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xow2gnVTUjs

[Ian]

I had a moan about one or two difficult customers in my bus and how they sometimes make me wonder how innocent children really are, but overall my blessings in doing this much outweigh the trials. And posting here about it prompted me to redo the photo on my tribute page to them on my website:
http://www.imagesfromthewild.ch/Kids/Kids.htm

Now if only I could survive on the meagre $ I get for driving them. But thankfully I have a tolerant wife who sees the positive side of it, even though it forces her to work full-time.

BTW, second line down, those are sweet cigarettes!