The Holy Mother Virgin Mary

[Jill]

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[TK]

i view her as a heroine of the faith. i really look forward to meeting her someday.

TK

[Jill]

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[TK]

my wife grew up in a strong catholic family. although she is no longer catholic, she has fond memories of her experience and says she had a strong love for Jesus at a very young age. Before her parents died, they were still very active in the church and when we visited them we would attend Mass. I had never been to a mass earlier in my life; it is quite an experience.

i dont think that every catholic is "dulled"- i think many are true believers; the danger i see is that they may be believing in too much. whether this negates their "salvation" is another topic.

one thing i do remember, though, is seeing a couple kneeling on the knnelers at the beginning of the service reading their newspapers- i mean they were holding them up in front of their faces reading while kneeling. i got a kick out it.

while i have not seen this in the church i attend, i am sure that many peoples' hearts are unfortunately in the same place.

TK

[darinhouston]

i dont think that every catholic is "dulled"- i think many are true believers; the danger i see is that they may be believing in too much. whether this negates their "salvation" is another topic.

I guess it's semantics, but I think the RC view of justification could be seen as believing "too much" in the sense that they believe you must also participate with God's grace through works to be saved (not just as evidence of your faith), or "too little" in the sense that they don't believe that Christ's atonement and heartfelt commitment to repent and serve Him is sufficient. Either way, I wonder if one needs to properly understand this sacrasanct principle of the Reformation to be saved. I have heard folks like Sproul suggest you must have such an understanding, but I know some "good Catholic" folks who are "enslaved" to the RC doctrines who have a heartfelt commitment to Christ and His kingdom. I have a hard time not believing they are "saved." (Consider our new friend, Tom, for example from what I can gather from his radio appearances). They sure show the fruits and demonstrate love for the brethren beyond many evangelicals I know. If I choose to believe what Christ says about assurance rather than what some modern Reformed teachers say I would have to say they are very likely saved individuals in spite of their wrong doctrine.

[TK]

well said, darin. i agree.

TK

[steve7150]

but I know some "good Catholic" folks who are "enslaved" to the RC doctrines who have a heartfelt commitment to Christ and His kingdom. I have a hard time not believing they are "saved." (Consider our new friend, Tom, for example from what I can gather from his radio appearances). They sure show the fruits and demonstrate love for the brethren beyond many evangelicals I know.



I'm sure Catholics and JWs who have a real heart for God are saved but from discussing things with 3 strong willed Catholics on another forum i must honestly say they seem a lot more interested in their "one true church" then in either Christ or scripture. Only God can read their hearts but in my own limited vision they do not even appear to me to be Christians and that's the problem which is the more rabid a Catholic becomes the less Christian they seem to be at least IMHO.
Ultimately so many RCC doctrines blatently contradict scripture that if you keep persuing this venue to it's end what happens is that the RCC must claim it has a higher authority then scripture because some major doctrines can not be reconciled.

[popeman]

It is interesting reading the posts of the Catholic Christian Church and terms used that border on religious "slavery". I left the Protestant Christian faith because everyone was so "lazy". They did not want to conform to anyone's doctrine except their own doctrine. Need proof? Well, look at the thousands and thousands of different doctrinal Protestant faiths. Most split from an earlier one, that split from another and another and another because they could not agree on salavation...loose it or not? Baptism...necessary or not?...etc. I was in a Protestant faith that split during the 8 years I was there.

You saw a newspaper in Church! Heck, I saw two couples at the Vineyard with their Starbucks and jabbering up a storm as if it were a "social". We will find faults in the people of a church daily...that is what we are there for...our faults. My question to the one author who "saw" a person reading a newspaper is "Why were you looking at others when you should have been praying like crazy instead of critiquing everyone/thing?" PAX Popeman

[darinhouston]

Need proof? Well, look at the thousands and thousands of different doctrinal Protestant faiths. Most split from an earlier one, that split from another and another and another because they could not agree on salavation...loose it or not? Baptism...necessary or not?...etc. I was in a Protestant faith that split during the 8 years I was there.

Do you honestly find any honest degree of conformity among all the parishes of the RC church, Popeman?

[popeman]

You betcha! Popeman