What wasn't there before?Allyn wrote:Coincidence? then I'll take all the coincidence I can get. I have many real life experiences I could share and one miracle when my life was saved from a near fall. Something saved my fall that wasn't there before and witnesses to boot.
Coincidence? I'll take all I can get.
Ask an atheist—but don't expect any straight answers!
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Miracles are divine intervention. So of course I don't.JC wrote:Asimov, I challenge the assertion that you don't believe in miracles.
No I don't. You believe that, you're the one who believes in God.You believe that non life miraculously spawned life.
You believe in abiogenesis even though it can't be proven.
You believe that random matter collected itself to form complex units, which later mutated upward, violating several laws of nature, to become more and more complex.
No I don't.
What does that even mean?You believe our thoughts and intellegence are merely recognized patterns of matter, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Really? I think you need to stop reading too much into my posts.[/quote]I know you believe these things because I've read most of your posts.
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I read posts like yours, and I wonder exactly (not to make you feel bad) what makes you so special that every one of your prayers has been answered (mostly), and yet there are people who are far more needy than you and they get nothing.glow wrote:I appreciate Asimov you are a seeker and use your mind. It's God given and you will connect with Him sooner or later....God Bless Glow
How can I possibly use "answered" prayers as evidence of God when the unanswered far outweigh those?
Coincidence is a large part of it. I could also attribute it to human effort to obtain what they want, through subconscious means.
However much you think I will "connect" with God, and people have made such statements previously, I have only been strengthened by my dislike of the God-concept. It has absolutely no meaning for me.
I'm not militant about it, but I'm not passive about it.
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Asimov
You relate my prayers as needs that I am recieving vs others whos prayers are not being answered ( by getting What they want) and why am I so special. I am not any more special than any of Gods creations.
I accept what I actually "get" from my prayers "as" the filling of my needs. I may pray for food or getting a bill paid etc. BUT I may not recieve it. Instead I may recieve information to why I may or may not be recieveing it.Further instruction etc.
My prayer IS answered but it may be different than what "I" wanted. In time I understand that what I did recieve vs what I felt I needed was answered in a way that showed wisdom and helped me grow as a person. God knows better than I do what I really need. HE invented me!
That is what I meant by prayers not being like a candy machine where you ask for something very specific and wait expecting to get that exact thing. It deosn't usually work like that. You ask the Lord for what you would like or feel you need than when you get your answer you accept it even though it may be different than what you expected, you accept the wisdom and are appreciative.. Your prayer is answered . BUT it may be a very diiferent answer than you wanted.
God loves me and gives me what he knows is best for me. I may not like the answer some times BUT it always ends up being the better answer for me personally because I believe he knows me intimately.
Faith is the middle ingredient you asked about earlier between my prayers and the Holy Spirit. I have had a life of a lot of different turmoils by the worlds standards and had to walk alot of tough roads. But over the years I KNOW God has been by my side every step of the way and I have learned to see Him in my life and understand better why certain things have happened to me. I am constantly in a growing process with Him.
I blow it some times but He is right there to pick me up, counsel me and answer my prayers. It is wonderful, even though very hard at times. BUT I have had to learn how to listen to Him, and see the beauty in each day He sets before me. It is a choice. Glow
You relate my prayers as needs that I am recieving vs others whos prayers are not being answered ( by getting What they want) and why am I so special. I am not any more special than any of Gods creations.
I accept what I actually "get" from my prayers "as" the filling of my needs. I may pray for food or getting a bill paid etc. BUT I may not recieve it. Instead I may recieve information to why I may or may not be recieveing it.Further instruction etc.
My prayer IS answered but it may be different than what "I" wanted. In time I understand that what I did recieve vs what I felt I needed was answered in a way that showed wisdom and helped me grow as a person. God knows better than I do what I really need. HE invented me!
That is what I meant by prayers not being like a candy machine where you ask for something very specific and wait expecting to get that exact thing. It deosn't usually work like that. You ask the Lord for what you would like or feel you need than when you get your answer you accept it even though it may be different than what you expected, you accept the wisdom and are appreciative.. Your prayer is answered . BUT it may be a very diiferent answer than you wanted.
God loves me and gives me what he knows is best for me. I may not like the answer some times BUT it always ends up being the better answer for me personally because I believe he knows me intimately.
Faith is the middle ingredient you asked about earlier between my prayers and the Holy Spirit. I have had a life of a lot of different turmoils by the worlds standards and had to walk alot of tough roads. But over the years I KNOW God has been by my side every step of the way and I have learned to see Him in my life and understand better why certain things have happened to me. I am constantly in a growing process with Him.
I blow it some times but He is right there to pick me up, counsel me and answer my prayers. It is wonderful, even though very hard at times. BUT I have had to learn how to listen to Him, and see the beauty in each day He sets before me. It is a choice. Glow
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Actually I'm not going to tell you unless you correctly tell me who put it there.Asimov wrote:What wasn't there before?Allyn wrote:Coincidence? then I'll take all the coincidence I can get. I have many real life experiences I could share and one miracle when my life was saved from a near fall. Something saved my fall that wasn't there before and witnesses to boot.
Coincidence? I'll take all I can get.
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I can't answer that, since I don't know the situation.Allyn wrote:Actually I'm not going to tell you unless you correctly tell me who put it there.Asimov wrote:What wasn't there before?Allyn wrote:Coincidence? then I'll take all the coincidence I can get. I have many real life experiences I could share and one miracle when my life was saved from a near fall. Something saved my fall that wasn't there before and witnesses to boot.
Coincidence? I'll take all I can get.
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Ok, then why do children with leukemia go last in this instance? Obviously you were receiving what you needed previously.glow wrote:I am not any more special than any of Gods creations.
So if you suddenly had cancer, you would consider that the filling of your needs?I accept what I actually "get" from my prayers "as" the filling of my needs. I may pray for food or getting a bill paid etc. BUT I may not recieve it. Instead I may recieve information to why I may or may not be recieveing it.Further instruction etc.
So your prayer wasn't answered.My prayer IS answered but it may be different than what "I" wanted. In time I understand that what I did recieve vs what I felt I needed was answered in a way that showed wisdom and helped me grow as a person. God knows better than I do what I really need. HE invented me!
Uh, no. An answered prayer is getting what you prayed for. Now you're just playing language games.Your prayer is answered . BUT it may be a very diiferent answer than you wanted.
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Asimov,
An answer to a prayer or any request isn't always the answer anyone wants. If you ask congress for a million dollars to spend at the casino and they said no you still got your request answered. Its the same with prayer. If the answer is no there is a reason behind the answer.
Jim
An answer to a prayer or any request isn't always the answer anyone wants. If you ask congress for a million dollars to spend at the casino and they said no you still got your request answered. Its the same with prayer. If the answer is no there is a reason behind the answer.
Jim
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Asimov,I can't answer that, since I don't know the situation.
Of course you have enough information. Just answer the question.
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Asimov, I was simply laying out the case for evolution since it's either that or God. If you don't believe non-life created life then you must concede that life created life (since life exists) and had to originate with an uncaused first cause. How can you get away from this conclusion in an atheistic worldview? I've heard some of the greatest minds in atheism (like Bertrand Russell) try to tackle this question and fail miserably.
As to your question on prayer, you must understand that the bible nowhere promises that we'll be physically healed just because we ask. Like Jim said, sometimes the answer is simply "no." Jesus asked to have his cup removed and God's answer was "no." Paul asked to have his thorn in the flesh removed and God said "no." I've honestly and sincerely prayed for things in my past and God didn't grant what I asked. Now, looking back, I'm glad his answer was "no."
Perhaps dying or giving up your life is the worst thing that could happen in an atheistic worldview. But from a Christian perspective, death is simply the end of a testing period. If a child suffers from a crippling disease, death is actually freedom from that disease and the child is welcomed into eternity. God may still choose to heal that child for any number of reasons but not healing the child can serve a purpose that he or she will be thankful for later. I know this from experience.
As to your question on prayer, you must understand that the bible nowhere promises that we'll be physically healed just because we ask. Like Jim said, sometimes the answer is simply "no." Jesus asked to have his cup removed and God's answer was "no." Paul asked to have his thorn in the flesh removed and God said "no." I've honestly and sincerely prayed for things in my past and God didn't grant what I asked. Now, looking back, I'm glad his answer was "no."
Perhaps dying or giving up your life is the worst thing that could happen in an atheistic worldview. But from a Christian perspective, death is simply the end of a testing period. If a child suffers from a crippling disease, death is actually freedom from that disease and the child is welcomed into eternity. God may still choose to heal that child for any number of reasons but not healing the child can serve a purpose that he or she will be thankful for later. I know this from experience.
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