What is the river of life in Revelations

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:47 pm

Yes, a new temple made by God in the New Jerusalem made by God on the New Earth made by God!

Now, is this during or after the Millennium?

Post by **_Thomas** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:12 am

What is the river of life in Revelations?

The Gospel , which flows out from God in Heaven and gives life (salvation)

Post by **_Ely** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:45 am

Mort_Coyle wrote:
Yes, a new temple made by God in the New Jerusalem made by God on the New Earth made by God!
Now, is this during or after the Millennium?

Both. IMO, due to the plethora of quotations and allusions to the prophetic writings, Revelation 21 is probably a description of the millennium, though I'm not 100% on this yet.

Ely wrote:
Mort_Coyle wrote:It’s not hard to find. The land of the North is Assyria/Babylon. Jeremiah was writing after Israel had been conquered by Assyria and at the beginning of Judah’s fall to Babylon. The Babylonians destroyed the temple and carried off the contents as booty. The Ark of the Covenant is not heard from again and it is generally assumed that the Babylonians took it. Jeremiah is saying that when the captives return from exile in Babylon and rebuild the temple, the Ark will be missing and will not be replaced. “No big deal,” Jeremiah seems to be saying, “it will be forgotten.”
Was this also when "Jerusalem [was] called The Throne of the LORD, and all the nations [were] gathered to it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem" and didn't "follow the dictates of their evil hearts."?

So, IYO, was that part of Jeremiah's prophecy fulfilled at that time too?

Post by **_Homer** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:52 am

16 “Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,” says the LORD, “that they will say no more, ‘The ark of the covenant of the LORD.’ It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it, nor shall it be made anymore.
17 “At that time Jerusalem shall be called The Throne of the LORD, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem. No more shall they follow the dictates of their evil hearts.
18 “In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given as an inheritance to your fathers. Jeremiah 3

Excuse me, I'm not big on eschatology and may be a little slow, but where is a temple found in this passage?

Post by **_Hebrews 4 12** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:06 pm

I can't wait to see your face in the Ressurection if indeed God does build a Temple for Israel!

I've often thought the same, Ely. Everything hinges on there being another temple, so I can't help but wonder what the reaction would be if:

Another temple was attempted to be built, but like past efforts, it was destroyed before completion

or

If another temple was successfully built. I constantly hear and read rumors ( I say rumors because I have no idea how valid they are ) that Israel has everthing gathered and ready to go....they just need that pesky mosque removed.

I guess as a preterist, it would give me pause if a temple was built to completion. At the very least I'd have to cast a watchful eye on what developed with it. But I also wonder if the same would happen to dispies if another attempt was somehow aborted before completion. This would mean that their entire system crumbles, so would there be a mass falling away from the Faith? Or would they just keep on keepin' on and assume more attempts would be made until one was finally built?

How would you react, Ely?

Post by **_Ely** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:41 pm

That's a great question. An aborted atempt to build a temple wouldn't cause much problems for me. As you said, there have been plenty of attempts since AD70 to rebuild the temple. The only thing that would be a fatal blow to my understanding would be if Jesus returns and wraps everything up without any of the tribulation/antichrist/mark of the beast stuff happening! And by then, it won't really matter. Conversly, if these things did come to pass, then preterism (full or partial) would fall apart.

By the way, I was referring to the Millennial temple not the "tribulation temple". If we see the glorious "Ezekelian"/"Johanine" temple (together with river of life) in the age to come, I'm gonna come and find you guys and make sure we go and worship there!!

Post by **_Hebrews 4 12** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:23 am

Heh, I love your spirit of brotherhood, Ely! I'm relatively new to deeper studies of eschatology, and like you said in a different thread, I get kind of tired of the constant bickering that these kind of discussions usually lead to.

First of all, thanks for clearing up the confusion. I just assumed you were referring to a "tribulation temple" that had all the Levitcal practices reinstated and such so the AC could come in and make his "abomination." I'm kind of confused about how the AC could do all this without a temple being there, but it's not really important right now.

I could use some clarification on some other stuff. What all happens in the "millennial temple" as you understand it? Will there be Levitical activity there as well? Sacrifices? Just praise and worship? Is this where Jesus remains permanently as "God with us?"

Thanks,
The Hebe

PS. as a side note, you mentioned full or partial preterism would fall apart...I think full preterism has already fallen apart, since they do not look for a physical return of Christ.

Post by **_Ely** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:25 am

Yeah, it's wierd how eschatology stirs up so much emotion. I just think there are holes in all positions so there's no point in being too dogmatic about it.

As I understand it, there will indeed be a temple built in Jerusalem prior to the Second Coming. I guess the temple will have sacrifices and stuff because the Jews will be thinkng that the Old Covenant is being restored. The the antichrist will subsequently sit in there and claim to be God. I think he himself might be the "abomination of desolation" or it could be some kind of idol. Not 100% sure at this point.

In the Millennium, based on the last few chapters of Ezekiel, there will be sacrifices and offerings there too. Jesus will be in Jerusalem and will reign the world from there.

To be honest, I'm not clear on what will happen after the Millennium. I know there will be a ressurection and followed by the second death, but as to how things will change on earth, I need to look into that a bit more.

Sorry I can't be of more help, but check out www.lasttrumpet.com for more on premillennialism.

Ely

Post by **_Hebrews 4 12** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:24 pm

In the Millennium, based on the last few chapters of Ezekiel, there will be sacrifices and offerings there too. Jesus will be in Jerusalem and will reign the world from there.

Ok, this is the part I wanted to be sure I had a correct understand of from a dispensational view. I have to say it's also one of the points that makes the least bit of sense to me, especially in light of Hebrews. From my understanding, even if there were a temple needed for God to dwell in (which I obviously do not think is taught), why would He ever reinstate a sacrificial system that Jesus brought an end to as the ultimate sacrifice for all times? Wouldn't that be yet another abomination?

As I understand it, there will indeed be a temple built in Jerusalem prior to the Second Coming. I guess the temple will have sacrifices and stuff because the Jews will be thinkng that the Old Covenant is being restored. The the antichrist will subsequently sit in there and claim to be God. I think he himself might be the "abomination of desolation" or it could be some kind of idol. Not 100% sure at this point.

This is what I meant earlier when I said that the dispensational view kind of hinges on whether or not a new temple is built. If it's not there, then the AC will have to find somewhere else to prop himself up as God. Maybe Ceasar's Palace in Las Vegas?

Yeah, it's wierd how eschatology stirs up so much emotion. I just think there are holes in all positions so there's no point in being too dogmatic about it.

I agree. Each view has just enough chinks in it's armor to keep it from being "the ONE" without doubts. We obviously disagree on which one has fewer chinks, but I guess the answer will remain a part of the Mysteries that belong to God until we meet Him.

Post by **_Ely** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:56 pm

Concerning the temple and sacrifices, check out the following:
http://www.geocities.com/lasttrumpet_20 ... fices.html

Also, check out this debate between a dispensationalist and a full preterist. They speifically deal with the issue of the "Ezekiel temple":
http://www.geocities.com/lasttrumpet_2000/debate3.html

shalom,

Ely