God Hates Fags?

[Guest]

What do we think of these guys?

http://www.godhatesfags.com

Quote:

SODOMY IS AN ABOMINABLE SIN, WORTHY OF DEATH.
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13. "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Romans 1:32.
See also Leviticus 18:22, Genesis 19, Romans 1:18-32, I Corinthians 6:9-11, I Timothy 1:10, and Jude 7.

GOD HATES ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY.
"The foolish shall not stand in thy sight, thou hatest all workers of iniquity." Psalm 5:5.
See also Leviticus 20:23, Leviticus 26:30, Deuteronomy 32:19, Psalm 5:6, Psalm 11:5, Malachi 1:3, Matthew 7:23, and Romans 9:13.

JESUS CHRIST DIED ONLY FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.
See also John 13:1, John 17:9, Ephesians 5:25, etc.

ONLY GOD'S ELECT HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO BELIEVE.
"Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." John 12:39,40.
See also John 10:11,26, Matthew 11:25,26, Acts 13:48, Romans 9:19-24, etc.

SODOMITES ARE PROUD OF THEIR SIN ("GAY PRIDE"), AND IN THAT PRIDEFUL STATE THEY CANNOT REPENT - YOU CANNOT REPENT OF SOMETHING YOU'RE PROUD OF.
"Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD." Jeremiah 6:15.
See also Jeremiah 13:23, Romans 1:24-32, Ezekiel 16:49-50, etc.

THE SODOMITES' ONLY HOPE IS TO HAVE THE UNAMBIGUOUS TRUTH PREACHED TO THEM, AND PERHAPS GOD WILL SOFTEN THEIR HEARTS AND GRANT THEM REPENTANCE TO DEPART FROM THEIR SIN AND NAME THE NAME OF CHRIST. NOT VERY LIKELY, THOUGH, SINCE GOD HAS GIVEN THEM UP.
"Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." II Timothy 2:19. "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness...unto vile affections...to a reprobate mind." Romans 1:24-28.
See also II Timothy 2:24-26, Psalm 5:5, I Corinthians 6:9-11, Acts 17:30, Jude 22,23, etc.

THERE IS A HELL WHERE ALL IMPENITENT SINNERS WILL RESIDE FOR ALL ETERNITY. THAT INCLUDES SODOMITES (CALLED "DOGS").
"And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh." Isaiah 66:24. "For without are dogs..." Revelation 22:15.
See also Mark 9:44, Luke 16:23, Revelation 20:15.


In summary, sodomites are wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly (Gen. 13:13), are violent and doom nations (Gen. 19:1-25; Jgs. 19), are abominable to God (Lev. 18:22), are worthy of death for their vile, depraved, unnatural sex practices (Lev. 20:13; Rom. 1:32), are called dogs because they are filthy, impudent and libidinous (Deut. 23:17,18; Mat. 7:6; Phil. 3:2), produce by their very presence in society a kind of mass intoxication from their wine made from grapes of gall from the vine of Sodom and the fields of Gomorrah which poisons society's mores with the poison of dragons and the cruel venom of asps (Deut. 32:32,33), declare their sin and shame on their countenance (Isa. 3:9), are shameless and unable to blush (Jer. 6:15), are workers of iniquity and hated by God (Psa. 5:5), are liars and murderers (Jn. 8:44), are filthy and lawless (2 Pet. 2:7,8), are natural brute beasts (2 Pet. 2:12), are dogs eating their own vomit and sows wallowing in their own feces (2 Pet. 2:22), will proliferate at the end of the world bringing final judgment on mankind (Lk. 17:28-30), have been finally given up by God to uncleanness dishonoring their own bodies among themselves, to vile affections, and to a reprobate mind such that they cannot think straight about anything (Rom. 1:23-28), have wholly given themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh (Jude 7), must be pulled as faggots from the fire (Jude 23), and have no hope of Heaven unless they repent (Rev. 22:15), which they can't do in their prideful state (Jer. 6:15). They need to hear this truth if they are to have any hope of penitence, faith in Jesus Christ and salvation (I Timothy 4:2-4).

[_Steve]

James,
I don't know these people well enough to say what I would think of them in general. This specific piece has a flavor to it that puts me off a bit, though most of what they say is true.

The problem is that many of the scriptures they cite and the points they make are not only true of sodomites, but also of every kind of wickedness...drunkenness, cruelty, violence, murder, sexual impurity, unfaithfulness, divorce, coveteousness and other forms of idolatry—all of which have been fairly rampant in our society for decades before the sodomites "came out."

I do not believe that all sin is equal, however, as some Christians suggest. Two sins may be very unequal to each other in terms of the deliberate rebellion and perversion involved, the sacredness of the institutions sinned against, the devastation sustained in the lives of the victims, the number of victims affected, the destructive impact on society and Christianity, and the irreversibility of the damage done. This is, no doubt, the reason that God did not affix equal penalties to every crime. God's law is perfectly just, and His penalties, therefore, always accurately reflect the magnitude of the crimes being judged.

On the one hand, I don't much like singling out one sin of our times for special condemnation, while remaining silent about others of similar magnitude. On the other, I do see the agenda of the modern sodomite activists to be particularly offensive. Other sins that are committed in our culture are often committed privately, and with a measure of shame. We don't see "Drunkards' Pride" or "Pornographers' Pride" parades—for the simple reason that, even those who commit these sins do not generally believe that they are doing something that should be legitimized by society. They know these things are shameful, but are morally weak, and often ashamed of their weakness.

I know that there are some homosexuals who are in this same category. Just as the drunkard may be in bondage to alcohol, and the pornography-user may feel impotent in his own strength to resist the lure of pornography—even though both may wish they could be free—I know there are people who have not made a conscious choice to be homosexuals, who are ashamed of their orientation, and would change themselves if they knew how to do so.

I do not mean that these people have a genetic disposition to same-sex attraction. Most of them (it is a statistical fact) were sexually violated at a young age by a member of the same sex, which has somehow "marked" their thinking about sex in a homosexual direction. For such people, I feel (as a fellow sinner with somewhat different struggles) only sincere compassion. I find no reason to blame them for their struggles and moral failures any more severely than any other sinner who struggles and fails in privacy, and who desires relief from his corruption.

Now the sodomite activists, on the other hand, are on a crusade to publicize and legitimize perversion, to oppose freedom of speech on the part of those idealogically opposed to them, to recruit children into their sinful lifestyle, and to redifine Christianity and the divine institutiion of marriage—to the detriment of many future generations. In this respect, these particular sodomites are the enemy of God and decency by self-definition, and are a far greater threat to civilization than is any other sinful special interest group in our time.

I can understand why so many Christians feel like focusing their preaching against this movement. It is the embodiment of almost pure evil. But Christians too seldom make the distinction between those homosexuals who are no different from any other helpless sinner, and those who have made it their agenda to change all moral standards and bring the whole of civilization under the wrath of God along with them.

Of course, this problem is prickly. It is a propaganda war, where words and labels are used to confuse issues and to blur the truth. If a decent person (including a struggling homosexual) should simply express the conviction that sodomy is a sin, he would certainly be labeled a homophobe and a bigot...even if he means by his statement no more than he would have meant if he were to say that promiscuity, blasphemy and perjury are sins. There is in these statements no inate hatred of those who are in bondage to such sins. If Jesus were on earth today, He would certainly identify homosexuality as the sin that it is, but would freely associate and eat with the gay community in order to extend the potential of forgiveness and deliverance to them. There are reasons why He was called "A friend of sinners." Not enough zealous Christians are in danger of being given this label.

The early Christians lived in the Roman and Greek cultures, where homosexuality was openly practiced, even by the Emperors, yet the apostles did not write against this sin any more frequently than they did against lying, coveteousness or drunkenness. I don't mean that they did not (like Lot in Sodom) "torment [their] righteous soul[s] from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds" (2 Pet.2:8). It just means that the whole pagan culture was so thoroughly corrupt, that homosexuality apparently did not stand out in their minds as very much worse than all the other perversions of the culture.

Yet the integrity of the Christian community and witness did not seem to be threatened by this evil around them (with the exception of some spiritually weak churches, like Corinth). This is because they realized that the dominant culture was, and had always been, a pagan culture, and Christianity could only succeed by defining itself as a "counterculture," which, apparently, condemned the dominant culture more by its example than by its resorting to scathing denunciations.

This is where the modern church in the West is different—and why the gay rights agenda has put us in terror (yes, in one sense, we ARE homophobes—and any sensible person would be who thinks that the downfall of a great civilization is a frightening thing to those who live in it!). We have not recognized the dominant culture as a pagan culture and ourselves as a counterculture.

Our general religious outlook has enjoyed the favor of Western Civilization for centuries, and we had kind of gotten used to it. We forgot that our citizenship is in heaven and that we are mere strangers and pilgrims here. We are not here to get comfortable in an accommodating society, but to snatch as many people as possible from the flames before the fire falls.

Because we have thought our society to be "Christian" when it was not, we have been shocked to see overtly anti-Christian behavior publicly committed and legitimized. We have thought it our mission to clean up the culture—much like the servants who suggested, upon discovering tares in the field, that they ought to immediately go out and destroy the tares. Paul expressed the opposite sentiment: "What have I to do with judging those outside [the church]? Do you not judge those inside? But those who are outside God judges" (1 Cor.5:12-13).

You see? Paul's attitude was just the opposite of that of the modern Western Evangelical Church. We judge the society outside, and condemn its sins—but we seldom judge the sins of those within our own ranks, as would be the case if church discipline were more often administered (which is what Paul was recommending in 1 Corinthians 5).

How we got things so turned around is a study in itself, but, suffice it to say, we have, to a large degree, neutralized our witness and alienated many whom we might otherwise have been able to reach by this reversal. We have not presented a credible "alternative society" to the world, but have re-imaged ourselves as a group of compromised, peevish, condemning, fearful and small-minded people, desperate to hold onto our former cultural power in an age that has turned a corner and sees no reason to look back.

Whether the church will ever recover its pilgrim spirit and countercultural character is hard to predict, but unless we can become a community of cheerful obedience, secure in the rightness of our position, unafraid to live what we believe in a hostile environment, keeping our own house clean, animated with the compassion of Christ toward the doomed ones living around us, and mingling with our lost neighbors as a medic on the battlefield associates with the wounded, we will not make many converts by standing aloof and calling down epithets upon the lost. Nor, without these things, will we have the longevity of the primitive church.

[Guest]

Very good Steve. I don't see much there to argue with... Thanks...

[Guest]

First, it is a sin in the eyes of God to act with someone of your own gender as if they were another. I think that has been established here with Leviticus 20:13.

Second, any behavior that is not in righteousness (in other words sin) is influenced by the evil one, read 1 John 5:19 "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness." The flesh is worldy, therefore it abides by the devil's influence in separating us from God, read Romans 8:6-8 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." The eternal death spoken of leads to hell. Anything going to hell serves the devil, read
John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." Homosexuality is influenced by the devil since it is hated by God.

Lastly, just because homosexuality is a sin doesn't give you the right to name call. There is no hatred in a true child of God except the hatred of how many the evil one will deceive. Be careful what you say about sinners, even about the devil. Saying evil things about another can lead to self corruption, another piece of trickery by the devil. That's why the archangel Michael was careful. Read Jude 1:9-10 "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves."

May you be a hearer and doer of The Word

[Guest]

This is seven year old schoolyard immature foolishness. I can't think of any other way to explain what I read. These people have a serious mis-understanding of God's love for the World. I see from thier statement of faith that they are fatalistic in thier theology. "God would never elect (forced election) a homosexual" is what they must think. This putrid waste of God's resources should make all of us embarrassed. God loves everybody, and forgives anybody who repents.

It sure makes them look holy when they compare themselves to the world around them, but that is not the standard Christians are to live by. They need to compare themselves to Christ, and then fall down in front of him and repent for thier blatant disobedience to his commands.

Stupid, Stupid, Stupid, ...

This crap makes me ill. I don't usually use foul words, and I don't know if they are allowed on this site, but this reply would have been the place.
Glenn

[Guest]

Well if God were a Britisher, he might.....but fag means cigarette in British slang. As to sin, God hates it all...every last misuse of the God given freedom of choice He detests. But he does not delight in the deaths of sinners.....He desires all to repent and come to a saving, transforming and committed Faith in His Son.
I detest fatalist theology as well...God creates no one for destruction, nor does He prevent anyone from seeking His face. Determinism is anathema to Orthodox Christianity..there I said it! "God so loved the world (inclusive) that He gave His only Son, that whomsoever (inclusive & free will motivated) should believe in Him should not perish, but shall have eternal Life." Augustine, Calvin, Knox, Beza and Jansen did not inspire or write the Scriptures, but they sure are guilty of twisting them.
Homosexuality is a sexual sin, and like all sexual sins it is forbidden by God in both Covenants. Can a sinner repent? yes? Will all sinners repent? No! Should the Church exclude sinners from seeking God's face in their midst? NO! We are here to seek the Lost Sheep for Christ. Shall we embrace these lost soul's sinful lifestyles and proclaim them to be acceptable to God in Christ and His Holy Church? NO!!!!!!! All have sinned in one way or another, the Church is about repentant living...not dogs returning to their vomit!
Cheap Grace is False Hope. Unity without Truth is Lunacy. The Church is not a social club for social progressives who seek to redefine Truth according to their lusts, desires, fears and guilts.......it is a Covenant Community based on the Grace of God and the Complete revelation of Scripture on all matters of morals, ethics, discipline, faith and practices.

Have I said too much?

Merry Christ-Mass,
+Ken Huffman

[Guest]

Steve said:

Most of them (it is a statistical fact) were sexually violated at a young age by a member of the same sex, which has somehow "marked" their thinking about sex in a homosexual direction.

Do you or does anyone else know where I can find the statistics? I have a friend who is a believer and getting his master's degree in sociology at a very liberal school. His professors claim that this statement is not founded in any research or studies.

I have heard this comment many times, and from those homosexuals that I know have seen it proven true, but would like to have some hard data. Thanks!

[_Steve]

Hi Rae,
I guess I ought to answer for myself on this. I have to admit, I don't have the "statistics" to support my claim about "most" homosexuals having been molested as children. A study that can be found at http://www.narth.com/docs/studiesofinterest.html suggests that the percentage may be more like 46% (not "most," but a significant minority).

The article is from the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, and reads, in part:

"A 2001 study in the Archives of Sexual Behavior utilizes a non-clinical sample of 942 adults to compare rates of childhood molestation between heterosexuals and non-heterosexuals.

"The authors found that 46% of homosexuals and 22% of lesbian women reported homosexual molestation in childhood. This compared to childhood homosexual molestation rates of only 7% of heterosexual men and 1% of heterosexual women."

My statement should not have suggested statistical support for the claim about "most" homosexuals, since I have not seen statistics supporting this. My information came, as I recall, from a book by "ex-gay" leader, Frank Worthen (founder of Love in Action), quite a few years ago. I no longer have the book, but I have heard this same information over the years from various sources, and my own anecdotal experience in talking to gay people has confirmed that this has almost always been the case, namely, that they had been sexually violated by a person of the same sex before they had any other, heterosexual, experience.

There may be many gay people who do not fit this stereotype. My point remains the same, however, whether it is "most" or merely "many" who are in this category (I personally know of many)...that point being that the gay people themselves often are suffering from an orientation that they did not ask for, and so deserve our pity.

If I find additional statistical data, I will post it here, and I welcome anyone else to do the same.

[Guest]

I think that the best antidote toward any sin is the christian community walking in the light of God which deep down inside everyone would like to do. We're wired that way despite the rhetoric from atheists because everyone with half a brain knows a Creator exists but they reject him for various reasons including loving their sin. To focus on homosexuality is a losing battle , it's a worldly battle that we can not win and really should not win because people truly must come to God through the path of love. Remember what Paul said "love never fails" , why can't we believe Paul.