Are fallen angels active on the earth? when I read the following verse it seems they are not. So are demons fallen angels?
2 peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
Are fallen angels active on the earth?
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_Sam McNear
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Are fallen angels active on the earth?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Sam McNear
To know God and to make Him known - that is the most important thing!
To know God and to make Him known - that is the most important thing!
And also:
Jude 1:6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day...
Some have speculated that the demons are not fallen angels, but the spirits of the nephilim (children of fallen angels and earthly women) Gen 6:4. It is thought that these were "the spirits in prison" to whom Jesus preached. I Peter 3:18-20. Because these nephilim were half human, they wished to inhabit some physical body. Thus these demons wish to possess people. When Jesus cast some of them out of people, they requested to enter a herd of swine.
Jude 1:6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day...
Some have speculated that the demons are not fallen angels, but the spirits of the nephilim (children of fallen angels and earthly women) Gen 6:4. It is thought that these were "the spirits in prison" to whom Jesus preached. I Peter 3:18-20. Because these nephilim were half human, they wished to inhabit some physical body. Thus these demons wish to possess people. When Jesus cast some of them out of people, they requested to enter a herd of swine.
Last edited by _PTL on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
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_Mort_Coyle
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FWIW, the great early theologian Origen (185-254 AD) postulated that at one time all souls had been with God but had fallen away. The ones who fell the least became angels. The majority who fell became people. And the ones who fell the farthest became demons. Origen believed that, ultimately, all would be reconciled to God. This view, which was common among early Christians, is called apocatastasis.
The popular view about demons being fallen angels actually comes, primarily, from the pseudepigraphal Book of Enoch (aka 1 Enoch) which was probably written around 160 BC. Jude was clearly influenced by 1 Enoch and quotes it in verses 14-15.
As Paidion pointed out, another view is that demons are the spirits of the Nephilim. Who or what the Nephilim were is another topic of age-old dispute.
The bottom line is that we really don't know who or what demons are (likewise Satan, for that matter). All we can do is speculate and, in speculating, we should be cautious.
The popular view about demons being fallen angels actually comes, primarily, from the pseudepigraphal Book of Enoch (aka 1 Enoch) which was probably written around 160 BC. Jude was clearly influenced by 1 Enoch and quotes it in verses 14-15.
As Paidion pointed out, another view is that demons are the spirits of the Nephilim. Who or what the Nephilim were is another topic of age-old dispute.
The bottom line is that we really don't know who or what demons are (likewise Satan, for that matter). All we can do is speculate and, in speculating, we should be cautious.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Reason:
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_Sam McNear
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I don't believe that nephilim where off spring of fallen
I don't believe that nephilim were off spring of fallen angels. But have fallen angels ever been active in influencing man or were they sent straight to the "dungeon" after sinning? The verse I quoted seems to say this. Are there any other verses that say something similar or compliment this notion?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Sam McNear
To know God and to make Him known - that is the most important thing!
To know God and to make Him known - that is the most important thing!
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_Mort_Coyle
- Posts: 239
- Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:28 am
- Location: Seattle, WA
According to scripture, demons do play a role in influencing humans. We do not know, however, if demons are fallen angels. So a direct answer to your question is not provided by scripture.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Sam, the verse you quoted seems to say that the fallen angels were "sent straight to the dungeon (Tartarus). But it does not say the nephilim (possibly their offspring) were? They were mighty, powerful men of old ---- possibly the source of the stories of the heroic deeds of Hercules, and other Greek and Roman gods.
I have read, "The gods of the nations are demons." I actually thought it was in the Bible, but I cannot find it. The early Christians believed the Greek and Roman gods were demons. In the stories of these gods, they often mated with human women and had children.
In Psalm 82 it is written, "God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment" Later in the Psalm, He says to the gods, "You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, you shall die like men, and fall like any prince." Psalm 82:6-7
Could it be that though the fallen angels themselves are confined in Tartarus until the judgment, their offspring were born, had lived, and had died like ordinary human beings? But unlike human beings, who die and stay dead until the resurrection, they had spirits which survived death (because of their angelic geneology), but still wished to inhabit people. Thus Jesus, in His day, drove them out of people they tried to control.
1 Peter 3:18-20 may throw some light on this matter:
For Christ also died concerning sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.
Why does it specify that the spirits to whom the resurrected Christ preached, were the ones who did not obey during the days of Noah? Could it be that only during and prior to the days of Noah, were there living offspring of fallen angels --- demonic spirits? Could it be that they needed to hear the good news of what Christ had accomplished on the cross, and to hear the message that they needed to be reconciled to God? All normal human beings who have died since the days of Noah, are still dead until the resurrection.
I am not sure about the "prison" in which the spirits are said to be. Perhaps it is figurative language referring to the "prison of rebellion" or the "prison of unbelief".
In summing up, the view I have expressed answers your question in this way: The fallen angels are bound in Tartarus until judgment day ---- but the spirits of their offspring live on to do their dastardly work among manknd.
I have read, "The gods of the nations are demons." I actually thought it was in the Bible, but I cannot find it. The early Christians believed the Greek and Roman gods were demons. In the stories of these gods, they often mated with human women and had children.
In Psalm 82 it is written, "God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment" Later in the Psalm, He says to the gods, "You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, you shall die like men, and fall like any prince." Psalm 82:6-7
Could it be that though the fallen angels themselves are confined in Tartarus until the judgment, their offspring were born, had lived, and had died like ordinary human beings? But unlike human beings, who die and stay dead until the resurrection, they had spirits which survived death (because of their angelic geneology), but still wished to inhabit people. Thus Jesus, in His day, drove them out of people they tried to control.
1 Peter 3:18-20 may throw some light on this matter:
For Christ also died concerning sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.
Why does it specify that the spirits to whom the resurrected Christ preached, were the ones who did not obey during the days of Noah? Could it be that only during and prior to the days of Noah, were there living offspring of fallen angels --- demonic spirits? Could it be that they needed to hear the good news of what Christ had accomplished on the cross, and to hear the message that they needed to be reconciled to God? All normal human beings who have died since the days of Noah, are still dead until the resurrection.
I am not sure about the "prison" in which the spirits are said to be. Perhaps it is figurative language referring to the "prison of rebellion" or the "prison of unbelief".
In summing up, the view I have expressed answers your question in this way: The fallen angels are bound in Tartarus until judgment day ---- but the spirits of their offspring live on to do their dastardly work among manknd.
Last edited by _PTL on Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
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_Sam McNear
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:22 pm
- Location: Beaverton, Oregon
again I don't believe that nephilim where off spring
I think Jesus went to the place of the dead (sheol) to preach to all the spirits. This could be a case for universal reconciliation (interesting thought). I know Jesus set free the spirits of the righteous who walked the earth with him after resurrection. So I think Jesus preached to dead humans. and if he did preach to fallen angels I don’t see any biblical evidence for angels having sex with humans and producing offspring. And if they went straight to Tartarus after they sinned how could they have had relations with women unless that was their sin? The bible does not teach that doctrine of the nephilim being angel children. I only some commentaries.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Sam McNear
To know God and to make Him known - that is the most important thing!
To know God and to make Him known - that is the most important thing!
Personally I don't think it was for universal reconciliation that Jesus went and preached to the spirits in prison but rather to fulfill all things in that even the spirits in prison had to be shown (proved) that Jesus Christ is Lord. It was to settle the matter in the form of justice and not to reconcile them before God.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Reason:
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_Sam McNear
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:22 pm
- Location: Beaverton, Oregon
interesting
I would say that sounds very good any scripture to back it up?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Sam McNear
To know God and to make Him known - that is the most important thing!
To know God and to make Him known - that is the most important thing!
No specific Scripture except to say the one describing where Christ came to fulfill all things and in that all things are finished. Its more that of a concept being applied.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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