"Perish"... What does it mean?

[mgarrett]

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

The term "perish" is used often in the New Testament. In this verse it is used in contrast to "eternal life". I have come to view these terms differently than in previous years. I suppose the traditional view of the term "perish" is associated with Eternal Torment or Annihilation. For the record, I will state that I don't see it that way, but I am starting this thread to see if anyone can provide scriptural support for their view of what this term means in a practical sense. Is it literal or metaphorical? Does it refer to this life or the after-life? If someone has perished is he alive or dead (physically or spiritually)? In your view does one who has perished have any hope of reconciliation?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Todd

[Guest]

father of five, I think it means a loss of well-being, but not a loss of being. Thus, a person "perishing" does have hope of reconciliation.

Peace, dmatic

[Guest]

Hi Todd,

The Greek word here is apollumi which can mean destruction, death, impotence, ruin or simply, lostness.

For example, the word apollumi is translated in Luke 15:4-7, 8-9, 24 & 32 as lost.

If you read John 3:16 with the words "be lost" instead of "perish" it takes on a slightly more hopeful flavor.

It seems to me that it's not really a question of choosing between "perish", "destruction" or "lost", but rather the idea that something "is not". This can mean "is not" intact or alive or locatable, etc.

This brings to my mind Romans 4:17, where Paul refers to "...the God who give life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were."

[Guest]

From the Liddel & Scott Greek Lexicon:

apollumi

to destroy utterly, kill, slay, and of things, to destroy, demolish, waste, Hom., Att.; in pregnant sense, to drive me ruined from my fatherland, Eur.; to lose utterly, utterly, die, to be undone, you are done for, lost, ruined, to be lost, slip away, vanish, of the water eluding Tantalus

apo

from

ollumi

to destroy, make an end of, Hom., Trag.:—also of doing away with, to lose, to perish, come to an end, to be ruined, undone, to have perished, to be undone, ruined, of the dead

[mgarrett]

I realize now that this has already been discussed before at great length. Danny posted once before that the Greek word apollumi is also used in the following verse regarding the prodigal son.

Luke 15:24
For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost [apollumi], and is found. And they began to be merry.

In this case, the son was apollumi (or lost, perished), yet he was still very much alive and still had hope of reconciliation with his father which he did receive. This gives us a very good example that perish can be a temporary condition, and that it applies to people who are overcome in sin - have "lost" their way. A contrite return to the Father yields reconciliation.

When I think of the word "perish," I think of something that is useless and can no longer serve its intended purpose. This can describe someone who is overcome in sin....he has become useless to fulfill God's purpose. The following verse from Paul gives us a contrast.

2 Tim 2:20-21
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

Todd

[Guest]

FOF wrote

This gives us a very good example that perish can be a temporary condition, and that it applies to people who are overcome in sin - have "lost" their way

FOF, I’m having trouble seeing the word “lost” as referring to being personally lost (like if I told you I was “lost” in the forest). The word apollumi, in the NT, always seems to be from the perspective of the person who has lost something. In other words, it’s not used in the sense of saying “I’m lost and can’t find my way” but rather “I’ve lost my keys” or when a doctor will announce to a family “I’m sorry, we lost him”. Consider the following verse:

Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose (apollumi) one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.

It’s not describing the hand being lost from the perspective of the hand but rather from the perspective of the person who lost the hand. It seems to me that this is the consistent use of the word in the NT.

I think Danny was closer to the meaning when he said

It seems to me that it's not really a question of choosing between "perish", "destruction" or "lost", but rather the idea that something "is not". This can mean "is not" intact or alive or locatable, etc.

One of the only times, if not then only time, the NT uses the word from a first person standpoint is in this verse

Luk 8:24 And they went and woke him, saying, "Master, Master, we are perishing! (apollumi)" And he awoke and rebuked the wind and the raging waves, and they ceased, and there was a calm.

or in a looser first person sense

Luk 9:24 For whoever would save his life will lose (apollumi) it, but whoever loses (apollumi) his life for my sake will save it.

Even in these instances it’s not referring to being personally lost in the sense you meant, but rather it’s more like saying “My life will be lost (gone)”.

When I think of the word "perish," I think of something that is useless and can no longer serve its intended purpose.

Do you have an example from the NT that shows the word apollumi was used in this sense? I'm not aware of one.

Thanks for raising the question FOF. I'm trying to work my way through this subject. I'm not sure if it seems like I'm splitting hairs but believe it or not, this slight difference in the use of the word has a direct impact on the way I see the word "perish" used in John 3:16

God Bless

[mgarrett]

FOF wrote

This gives us a very good example that perish can be a temporary condition, and that it applies to people who are overcome in sin - have "lost" their way

FOF, I’m having trouble seeing the word “lost” as referring to being personally lost (like if I told you I was “lost” in the forest).

Steve,

Thanks for your post. It seems my comment...."have lost their way"...confused my point a bit. If you reread my post I was not in any disagreement with Danny; in fact, I was quoting a verse that he had quoted in another thread and I am in complete agreement with him on this.

All I am trying to point out is that many people read the word "perish" and think that this is a terminal condition and may refer to eternal torment or annihilation. The verse I quoted plainly shows an example where this is not the case; the prodigal son was described as being lost (apollumi) and dead, but through repentance became alive and found.

In my opinion the prodigal son was on the wrong path (engaged in riotous living). He came to realize this, repented, and returned to his father - the right path. When I said "lost their way" I simply meant that those who are overcome in sin are on the wrong path just as was the prodigal son.

Thanks for pointing out my error.

Todd

[mgarrett]

When I think of the word "perish," I think of something that is useless and can no longer serve its intended purpose.

Do you have an example from the NT that shows the word apollumi was used in this sense? I'm not aware of one.

Steve,

No. I'm not aware of one either. I was just speaking of my understanding of the word as it is used today in many instances. For example, when you go to the grocery store you will find items that are considered "perishable" (produce) and some that are "non-perishable" (canned goods). Those items that are perishable become useless if they are not eaten soon after harvesting. They can no longer fulfill their intended purpose.

I think this can apply to the word "perish" as it is used in John 3:16. Those who are overcome in sin cannot fulfill God's intended purpose in this life. When one repents and returns to God he becomes "useful to the Master, prepared for every good work" (2 Tim 2:21).

Todd

[Guest]

Here is how John used the Greek word apollumi:


Joh 3:15 - That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 6:12 - When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost.

Joh 6:27 - Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Joh 6:39 - And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Joh 10:10 - The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Joh 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joh 11:50 - Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

Joh 12:25 - He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Joh 17:12 - WhileI was with them in the world,I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest meI have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Joh 18:9 - That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.

Joh 18:14 - Now Caiaphas was he, which gave counsel to the Jews, that it was expedient that one man should die for the people.


Strong's Number: 622 a)po/llumi
Original Word Word Origin
a)po/llumi from (575) and the base of (3639)
Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling
Apollumi ap-ol'-loo-mee

Definition:

1. to destroy

a. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin
b. render useless
c. to kill
d. to declare that one must be put to death
e. metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell
f. to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed

2. to destroy

a. to lose

Not a lot of room for hope there (as in "wish"); but I suppose one could "wish Jesus hadn't said that".

[Guest]

Homer, what you have clearly demonstrated is that apollumi carries multiple nuances of meaning beyond simply destruction. This only adds to my hope and conviction that Jesus is, as John's Gospel puts it, "...the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"