When I look at chapters like Mat 24 and the majority of Revelation I see a message to Christians of our time, not just AD 70. I can see that those passages were written to the Christians of that generation, as would seem most reasonable by the context of Mat 24:34. BUT, I believe that God intended this as a message to all Christians until Christs second coming.
Why do you think that both Mat 24 and Revelation closely link the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 with His second coming? Are the similarities between Christs second coming and the destruction of AD 70 just a fluke? I don't think so. I believe God is warning all Christians of any time period from the cross to His second coming to "Take heed that no one deceives you" and beware of "false christs and falst prophets" and statements like this. And these statements will only become more, and more relevent as it gets closer to His second coming. Which could still be 10,000 years off, I don't know, and nobody knows for sure.
Will not satan be loosed at the very end for a short time? And what do you think will happen when satan is loosed for a short time? Well, I am no scholar, but I believe that a HUGE deception will take place after satan is loosed (false christs, false prophets, ect, ect) Maybe something like a major apostasy...
I think partial preterism is not wrong per say, but stops short of the full message God is trying tell to those Christians beyond the first century. He who has ears let him hear.
Your brother in Christ.
Doug
Partial preterist with a broader view
Partial preterist with a broader view
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Hi Doug,
Are you saying that partial preterists are teaching that we don't have to worry about deception, false prophets, and false Christs? I've never heard one say,"kick back and relax; that's all over, it happened in the past." Have you?
Are you saying that partial preterists are teaching that we don't have to worry about deception, false prophets, and false Christs? I've never heard one say,"kick back and relax; that's all over, it happened in the past." Have you?
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The partial preterist I have heard talk about it, like Steve, say that Mat 24 for example is about AD 70. period. That it is not talking about Christs second coming, while I believe that Jesus was speaking of His second coming as well as AD 70. I don't think it is restricted to AD70 as a partial preterist seems to think.
Or maybe I missundertood what a partial preterist believes. ???
Help me understand if I am confused. lol
Doug
Or maybe I missundertood what a partial preterist believes. ???
Help me understand if I am confused. lol
Doug
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OK, I'm pretty sure you're right about that. Why would that make this sentence of yours untrue?douglas wrote:The partial preterist I have heard talk about it, like Steve, say that Mat 24 for example is about AD 70. period. That it is not talking about Christs second coming, while I believe that Jesus was speaking of His second coming as well as AD 70. I don't think it is restricted to AD70 as a partial preterist seems to think.
Or maybe I missundertood what a partial preterist believes. ???
Help me understand if I am confused. lol
Doug
I believe God is warning all Christians of any time period from the cross to His second coming to "Take heed that no one deceives you" and beware of "false christs and falst prophets" and statements like this.
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You wrote:
OK, I'm pretty sure you're right about that. Why would that make this sentence of yours untrue?
Quote:
I believe God is warning all Christians of any time period from the cross to His second coming to "Take heed that no one deceives you" and beware of "false christs and falst prophets" and statements like this.
The sentence above is not untrue, nor am I trying to imply that it is. I may not be making myself clear.
All I am saying is this chapter is not just to the first century Christians regarding AD 70. There is more, and I believe that the false christs and false prophets and deception will take place in the institutional church as we know it. And that the warning in Mat 24 of when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Danial the prophet standing where it should not, this is speaking of false prophets and false christs preaching from the pulpit in our institutional church's and not just some event in AD 70. That is my point. The message in Mat 24 and Revelation is much more than just AD70.
Doug
OK, I'm pretty sure you're right about that. Why would that make this sentence of yours untrue?
Quote:
I believe God is warning all Christians of any time period from the cross to His second coming to "Take heed that no one deceives you" and beware of "false christs and falst prophets" and statements like this.
The sentence above is not untrue, nor am I trying to imply that it is. I may not be making myself clear.
All I am saying is this chapter is not just to the first century Christians regarding AD 70. There is more, and I believe that the false christs and false prophets and deception will take place in the institutional church as we know it. And that the warning in Mat 24 of when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Danial the prophet standing where it should not, this is speaking of false prophets and false christs preaching from the pulpit in our institutional church's and not just some event in AD 70. That is my point. The message in Mat 24 and Revelation is much more than just AD70.
Doug
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Well, good, I agree with you. It's what I think about all of the Bible.douglas wrote:You wrote:
OK, I'm pretty sure you're right about that. Why would that make this sentence of yours untrue?
Quote:
I believe God is warning all Christians of any time period from the cross to His second coming to "Take heed that no one deceives you" and beware of "false christs and falst prophets" and statements like this.
The sentence above is not untrue, nor am I trying to imply that it is. I may not be making myself clear.
All I am saying is this chapter is not just to the first century Christians regarding AD 70. There is more, and I believe that the false christs and false prophets and deception will take place in the institutional church as we know it. And that the warning in Mat 24 of when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Danial the prophet standing where it should not, this is speaking of false prophets and false christs preaching from the pulpit in our institutional church's and not just some event in AD 70. That is my point. The message in Mat 24 and Revelation is much more than just AD70.
Doug
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_STEVE7150
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as would seem most reasonable by the context of Mat 24:34. BUT, I believe that God intended this as a message to all Christians until Christs second coming.
Steve G is a partial preterist but i think he has said that Matt 24.35 and after is about Christ's second coming, but i think your thoughts are reasonable. After all if Isaiah prophecied about Jesus 750 years before the event , how far in advance can Jesus himself predict events?
Steve G is a partial preterist but i think he has said that Matt 24.35 and after is about Christ's second coming, but i think your thoughts are reasonable. After all if Isaiah prophecied about Jesus 750 years before the event , how far in advance can Jesus himself predict events?
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Hi MichelleM,
I agree! And thats my point regarding the entire Bible as well.
Finally someone that understands me! Or maybe I just finally put into words what I have not been able to so far in a comprehensible form.
Maybe I missunderstand what Steve is saying regarding partial preterism, and a few other minor things, but it appears to me that he puts to much focus or emphasis on "how the first century Christians would understand something in the NT" without going deeper into what God is saying to all Christians throughout time. It seems to me that some things are "multi-layered" in there meaning. Such as James 1:18 and the first fruits of His creatures refering to not only the orig. recipients of the letter, but on another level, Christians of our time as well in relationship to all creation that is to be renewed at the end of time.
Steve is awesome, and I learn a lot from him, but we all have "blind-spots" that may prevent us from seeing all that is there. I know I must as I am still human, and learning and I know I have much to learn, and will for more entire life until I die. And this aspect of understanding that I have may be screwed up as well, but I am willing to learn and change according to scripture and what the Holy Spirit teaches me.
I agree! And thats my point regarding the entire Bible as well.
Finally someone that understands me! Or maybe I just finally put into words what I have not been able to so far in a comprehensible form.
Maybe I missunderstand what Steve is saying regarding partial preterism, and a few other minor things, but it appears to me that he puts to much focus or emphasis on "how the first century Christians would understand something in the NT" without going deeper into what God is saying to all Christians throughout time. It seems to me that some things are "multi-layered" in there meaning. Such as James 1:18 and the first fruits of His creatures refering to not only the orig. recipients of the letter, but on another level, Christians of our time as well in relationship to all creation that is to be renewed at the end of time.
Steve is awesome, and I learn a lot from him, but we all have "blind-spots" that may prevent us from seeing all that is there. I know I must as I am still human, and learning and I know I have much to learn, and will for more entire life until I die. And this aspect of understanding that I have may be screwed up as well, but I am willing to learn and change according to scripture and what the Holy Spirit teaches me.
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_psychohmike
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It's kind of funny...But from listening to a lot of Steve's lectures, I've concluded that he is the fullest partial preterist that I have ever known. I even brought this up at the last home fellowship that he was at down here in SoCal. It made him visibly defensive. Very mildly...but nonetheless. He did make it very clear that he does believe that Christ will come once again to wrap all things up.
However, if I remember correctly he sees all Old Testament prophecies as fulfilled. As well as all of Revelation through the end of chapter 22 as fulfilled as well. But that 2 Peter 3 as speaking as something still future to us.
This is just from memory...so I could be wrong.
For me...I guess I just have a hard time separating the "heavens and earth" of 2 Peter 3, from the "heavens and earth" in Revelation.
Especially since the word that Peter uses for "elements" in this passage is the word stoicheion. Following is the definition of the word.
1) any first thing, from which the others belonging to some series or composite whole take their rise, an element, first principal e.g. the elements, rudiments, primary and fundamental principles of any art, science, or discipline {Heb. 5:12}
1a) the elements of religious training, or the cermonial precepts common alike to the worship of the Jews and of the Gentiles {Gal. 4:3,9}
1b) the ceremonial requirements esp. of the Jewish tradition, minutely set forth by theophists and false teachers, and fortified by specious arguments {Col. 2:8,20}
1c) the principles and practices of the old covanant world order {2 Pet 3:10,12}
Which leads me to my point...
That is that Peter was using the word 'elements' in the same manner as every other instance in the New Testament. Which was clearly speaking of the 'elementary' principles of the Old Covenant legal system.
But this is just where I am at. Feel free to believe whatever you want.
Pmik
However, if I remember correctly he sees all Old Testament prophecies as fulfilled. As well as all of Revelation through the end of chapter 22 as fulfilled as well. But that 2 Peter 3 as speaking as something still future to us.
This is just from memory...so I could be wrong.
For me...I guess I just have a hard time separating the "heavens and earth" of 2 Peter 3, from the "heavens and earth" in Revelation.
Especially since the word that Peter uses for "elements" in this passage is the word stoicheion. Following is the definition of the word.
1) any first thing, from which the others belonging to some series or composite whole take their rise, an element, first principal e.g. the elements, rudiments, primary and fundamental principles of any art, science, or discipline {Heb. 5:12}
1a) the elements of religious training, or the cermonial precepts common alike to the worship of the Jews and of the Gentiles {Gal. 4:3,9}
1b) the ceremonial requirements esp. of the Jewish tradition, minutely set forth by theophists and false teachers, and fortified by specious arguments {Col. 2:8,20}
1c) the principles and practices of the old covanant world order {2 Pet 3:10,12}
Which leads me to my point...
That is that Peter was using the word 'elements' in the same manner as every other instance in the New Testament. Which was clearly speaking of the 'elementary' principles of the Old Covenant legal system.
But this is just where I am at. Feel free to believe whatever you want.
Pmik
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Soon means later, Near means far, and at hand means countless thousands of years off in the future.
Hermeneutics 101, Dallas Theological Seminary
Hermeneutics 101, Dallas Theological Seminary