Matthew 17:10-13

[livingink]

Matthew 17:10 The disciples asked him, "Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?" 11Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." 13Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist. NIV

When Jesus says John will "restore all things" is he referring to the preaching of repentance as in Luke 1:16-17 and Malachi 4:6? I notice he does not say "restore all people" and Mal. 4:6 implies that some may not change their heart.

livingink

[Mellontes]

Matthew 17:10 The disciples asked him, "Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?" 11Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." 13Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist. NIV

When Jesus says John will "restore all things" is he referring to the preaching of repentance as in Luke 1:16-17 and Malachi 4:6? I notice he does not say "restore all people" and Mal. 4:6 implies that some may not change their heart.

livingink

My thinking is that this is closely related to Luke 3:3-6 in relation to the prophecy of Isaiah 40. To me, it is the introduction of the gospel age in Jesus Christ. The time when all the OT promises would be fulfilled. But what do I know? I am just a lowely, heretical preterist. But if I may detract a little, Malachi 4:5 (the verse immediate to the one you mentioned) says that this Elijah would come before the great and terrible day of the Lord. What point would there be in having "this Elijah" appear on the scene and prouncing "at hand" judgments, if it was not going to occur to THAT generation - his audience? Do we really believe that God can't time His events any better than roughly 2,000 years? Are there two (2) "great and terrible days of the Lord"?

[Paidion]

Well if the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. was the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord, it didn't amount to much as far as the world was concerned.

Certainly the Jews in Jerusalem suffered terribly in that day, starved, resorted to cannibalism, etc. But wasn't Hitler's holocaust even worse for Jewish people? Was that a second "Great and Terrible Day of the Lord" 2000 years later?

No. The Great and Terrible Day of the Lord was neither one. It is yet to come, and won't be restricted to a tiny parcel of land, but will be experienced throughout the whole world.

The early Christians believed that Enoch and Elijah never died but were preserved by the Lord somewhere, and are still in their mortal bodies. It was believed that they will appear again in the last days and will be the two witnesses mentioned in Revelation, but will finally die at the hands of the Beast (Antichrist).

[livingink]

When we discussed Matthew 16:28, we said the coming of the kingdom may refer to the judgement of 70AD. In Matt. 17:11, Elijah "comes" for restoration. Can it be said that God visited for restoration through the prophet then visited for judgement through the events of 70AD? Or is the coming of Elijah to be understood simply as the appearing of Elijah/John the Baptist? Of necessity, this line of reasoning may more restrict the conversation to a preterist/partial preterist approach to this passage.

livingink

[Mellontes]

Well if the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. was the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord, it didn't amount to much as far as the world was concerned.

Certainly the Jews in Jerusalem suffered terribly in that day, starved, resorted to cannibalism, etc. But wasn't Hitler's holocaust even worse for Jewish people? Was that a second "Great and Terrible Day of the Lord" 2000 years later?

No. The Great and Terrible Day of the Lord was neither one. It is yet to come, and won't be restricted to a tiny parcel of land, but will be experienced throughout the whole world.

The early Christians believed that Enoch and Elijah never died but were preserved by the Lord somewhere, and are still in their mortal bodies. It was believed that they will appear again in the last days and will be the two witnesses mentioned in Revelation, but will finally die at the hands of the Beast (Antichrist).

Paidion, do you really believe that your "holocaust" interpretation would hold true to to the individuals who lived in, say, 1844?

There is only one Great and Terrible day of the Lord, and John the Baptist was sent just prior to it. No futurist interpretation can explain why John the Baptist showed up ahead of "the appointed day" by more than 19 centuries (so far). Not one. Perhaps God is unable to tell time or fulfill prophecies according to shcedule. What judgment would John the Baptist be forecasting? Something not spoken of in the OT? The time had been fulfilled! Not the time would be fulfilled at another time 50 generations removed from the sins of crucifying the Lord Jesus and persecuting His apostles and church. Sure, let's bring the judgment upon those who weren't even there...that's futurism in a nut shell.

The original interpretation does not change with each generation that comes and goes. What you said about the holocaust is "adjustment" theology, just as 1948, 1967, are the adjusted generations... This is why computer-oriented "exegesis" for parts of Revelation have no part in Theology whatsoever. Nobody could ever come to that conclusion prior to the 20th century! Nobody. Yet the seven first century Asian churches were to understand this...

[livingink]

It would appear that you two gentleman are deviating from the intent of this thread. I believe RND was greatly castigated for that behavior. If you'd like to argue futurism I'd invite you to start a new thread or return to one of the multiple threads that deal with that topic.

livingink