The Baptism of Everett

[Allyn]

Hi Danny,

I am wondering, are you missing something very important and ongoing? Something that continues to this day as we individually become a part of the kingdom of God?

Notice that it is baptism that puts us into Christ so that we can be saved. Galatians 3:27, "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." This is the only way a person can get into Christ. The preposition into indicates a change of relationship. You can search from the front to the back of your Bible, and you will find no other way to get into Christ except by being baptized into Christ. Also Romans 6:3 says the same thing, "Or do you not know, that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?" So the only way we can get into Christ is to be baptized into Christ. Either a person has been baptized into Christ, or he is still outside of Christ. We are either in or we are out. Have you been baptized into Christ in order to be saved and have your sins forgiven? If one hasn’t been, let us notice some of the things that one is missing.

1) Ephesians 1:3 says, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ." This verse tells us that every spiritual blessing is located in Christ. Only those who are in Christ can enjoy these spiritual blessings. Since this verse says that every spiritual blessing is in Christ, then there can be no spiritual blessings for those who are outside of Christ. If you have not been baptized into Christ, you are still outside of Christ, and you are not entitled to any spiritual blessings. The Lord arranged it that way and no man has the right to change it.

2) Romans 8:1 says, "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." On the day of our personal judgment those who are in Christ will not be condemned; but those who are outside of Christ will be condemned. We go from being condemned to being forgiven when we are baptized into Christ. If you have not been baptized into Christ, then you will suffer eternal condemnation.

3 & 4) Only those who are in Christ have been redeemed and forgiven of their sins. Ephesians 1:7 says, "In Him we have redemption, through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace." since redemption and forgiveness of sins are located in Christ, those who have not been baptized into Christ have not been redeemed and still have every sin they have ever committed. The scriptures are so clear that a person needs help to misunderstand it.

5) Next we read 2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation: old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new." If one is in Christ, he has become a new creation. He has a new beginning in life, and his "slate has been wiped clean" since he has been forgiven of all his sins and has become a new saved person. Although, if you are outside of Christ, you are still an old sinful creature. You still have all of your sins and are without hope. When is it that one becomes a new creation? Romans 6:3-4 says, "Or do you not know, that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore, we were buried with Him through baptism into death: that just as Christ Jesus was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." When is one raised to walk in newness of life? This scripture says that it is when we are raised out of the waters of baptism. At that point we begin our walk in newness of life. Newness of life does not begin until after baptism.

6) The Apostle Paul says in 2 Timothy 2:10, "Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory." Here we see that salvation is located in Christ, and for one to be eligible for salvation, he must be in Christ. If you are not in Christ, by being baptized into Christ, you have no hope or promise of salvation. It will be a horrible thing for a person, who thinks he is saved, when he stands before the Lord on the day of judgment, if he is still outside of Christ. He will have no salvation. He will be lost eternally.

7) In I John 5:11 we read, "And this is the testimony, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son." So according to the inspired word of God, eternal life is located in His Son, Jesus Christ. Only those in Christ have been promised eternal life. Those who are outside of Christ have no promise of eternal life. So what does that leave them? It leaves them only eternal punishment, which is a sad condition. My heart bleeds for them, because I don’t want to see anyone lost. But how can you get people to wake up to the truth of God’s word?

As we have seen, it is baptism that puts us into Christ (Rm 6:3, Gal 3:27) so that we can enjoy all of these spiritual blessings which are in Christ.

If you were baptized for the remission of sins in order to be saved then you were baptized into Christ. But if your baptism was not for the remission of sins and not to be saved, then you are still outside of Christ. If you are outside of Christ, you have no spiritual blessings, no redemption, no forgiveness of sins; you will be condemned on the day of judgment; you are still an old sinful creature; you have no hope of salvation and no hope of eternal life.

As Ephesians 2:12 says, "That at the time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world." Could a situation get any more desperate than having no hope and being without God? This is the situation of those who are outside of Christ.

[TK]

Allyn- how certain are you that passages you reference are talking about water baptism?

TK

[Allyn]

Hi TK, I'm certain enough to have posted them. What do you have that may say otherwise? I'd be interested, friend.

[TK]

Sorry, Allyn-

Actually- i didnt really ask what I meant- my bad. What I MEANT to ask was how certain you were that it is the water baptism that is the necessary act, vs. water baptism being a symbol of what has already taken place internally/spiritually. I know it is a fine distinction, but nonetheless an important one.

I must say that this statement of yours is very troubling to me:

If you were baptized for the remission of sins in order to be saved then you were baptized into Christ. But if your baptism was not for the remission of sins and not to be saved, then you are still outside of Christ. If you are outside of Christ, you have no spiritual blessings, no redemption, no forgiveness of sins; you will be condemned on the day of judgment; you are still an old sinful creature; you have no hope of salvation and no hope of eternal life.

I have no friends or family members who were baptized with this undertanding of baptism(nor was I). Believe me, they are not outside of Christ, nor am I. I would say a very large majority of protestant christians do not have this understanding of Baptism.

TK

[Allyn]

Sorry, Allyn-

Actually- i didnt really ask what I meant- my bad. What I MEANT to ask was how certain you were that it is the water baptism that is the necessary act, vs. water baptism being a symbol of what has already taken place internally/spiritually. I know it is a fine distinction, but nonetheless an important one.

I must say that this statement of yours is very troubling to me:

If you were baptized for the remission of sins in order to be saved then you were baptized into Christ. But if your baptism was not for the remission of sins and not to be saved, then you are still outside of Christ. If you are outside of Christ, you have no spiritual blessings, no redemption, no forgiveness of sins; you will be condemned on the day of judgment; you are still an old sinful creature; you have no hope of salvation and no hope of eternal life.

I have no friends or family members who were baptized with this undertanding of baptism(nor was I). Believe me, they are not outside of Christ, nor am I. I would say a very large majority of protestant christians do not have this understanding of Baptism.

TK

Personally, I am satisfied that it is water Baptism as a necessary act that is the issue because of the sins that need to be washed away. Just as necessary as asking for forgiveness of sins we commit thereafter. How can I be assured of my sins being washed clean unless I act upon the offer of salvation by that means? How can I be into Christ except by the Gal 3 method?

As to the second part of your question; Look at what 2000 years of factional (is that a word?) christianity has done. What must have been a well understood part of salvation has become a twisted mess. Remember from Steve Gregg's lecture on Hebrews where it speaks about it being impossible to return after having once tasted.. well here is the verse (Hebrews 6:4
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,). But then Steve pointed out the story where it is hard for a rich man to enter into the kingdome but with God all things are possible. It is my duty to speak only what is taught from Scripture but God is not bound by what I teach. I am bound to Him - He not to me. I am sympathetic, absolutely, an I do know God knows mens heart.

[TK]

thanks, allyn

Paul says:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Eph 2:8-9

in your view is the act of being baptised a "work," or something else?

TK

[Allyn]

thanks, allyn

Paul says:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Eph 2:8-9

in your view is the act of being baptised a "work," or something else?

TK

A response to the fact that I first believed and then repented.

[Paidion]

This is a point made by some groups who do not practice baptism: If baptism is symbolic of something inward and spiritual, then the inward/spiritual transformation is the real thing. If we have the real thing, why do we need the symbol that represents it? Especially when the symbol is so often confused for the real thing.

Some of those same groups also do not practice sharing the bread and wine to remember Christ. For "the real thing" is spiritually feeding on Christ (" unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you" John 6:53), so why should they need the symbol? Why should they eat a piece of physical bread and take a sip of wine?

Paul wrote to the Corinthians (11: 23-26)

For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."

In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

So was the communion or eucharist applicable only to that time, too? Maybe salvation itself applied only to those days!

Clearly, according to Paul, the sharing of the bread and wine in commemoration of Christ, was to be continued until He comes. So it ought to be practised by us 21st-century disciples, since Christ hasn't come yet.

Oops, I forgot about the full preterists! Christ already came in 70 A.D.! So maybe we don't need to continue having communion after all!

[Homer]

TK,

You wrote:

I have no friends or family members who were baptized with this undertanding of baptism(nor was I). Believe me, they are not outside of Christ, nor am I. I would say a very large majority of protestant christians do not have this understanding of Baptism.

My position is that it is the willing obedience of the heart, rather than a correct understanding of why God has commanded us to do something that counts. To me, the people who argue against the necessity of baptism remind me of Naaman:

2 Kings 5:10-14 (New King James Version)
10. And Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, “Go and wash in the Jordan seven times, and your flesh shall be restored to you, and you shall be clean.” 11. But Naaman became furious, and went away and said, “Indeed, I said to myself, ‘He will surely come out to me, and stand and call on the name of the LORD his God, and wave his hand over the place, and heal the leprosy.’ 12. Are not the Abanah and the Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Could I not wash in them and be clean?” So he turned and went away in a rage. 13. And his servants came near and spoke to him, and said, “My father, if the prophet had told you to do something great, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he says to you, ‘Wash, and be clean’?” 14. So he went down and dipped seven times in the Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.

The efficacy of Namaan's dipping in the Jordan was not affected one way or another by any understanding (or lack thereof) of why it was necessary. His reluctance can only be assigned one cause: unbelief.

in your view is the act of being baptised a "work," or something else?

The meaning of baptism is faith. It is not difficult to recognize that bodily acts can have meaning. We all understand this. And so does our Lord:

Matthew 9:1-2 (New King James Version)

1. So He got into He got into a boat, crossed over, and came to His own city. 2. Then behold, they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, be of good cheer; your sins are forgiven you.”

Mark 2:1-5 (New King James Version)

1. And again He entered Capernaum after some days, and it was heard that He was in the house. 2. Immediately many gathered together, so that there was no longer room to receive them, not even near the door. And He preached the word to them. 3. Then they came to Him, bringing a paralytic who was carried by four men. 4. And when they could not come near Him because of the crowd, they uncovered the roof where He was. So when they had broken through, they let down the bed on which the paralytic was lying.
5. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.”

Here we see clearly the physical acts Jesus observed were denominated as "faith". And these are not the only cases that can be adduced from the OT and NT. I could have listed a number of other proofs.

Danny wrote:

Would you also say that a lifetime of faith apart from baptism is also worthless?

That is God's prerogative to judge. I would wonder what kind of faith it is that would not gladly submit to such an easy command. (See Namaan above).

To my mind, one of the keys to understanding the role of baptism is the little Greek preposition eis. Here is an excellent article:

[Acts 2:38]

[Allyn]

This is a point made by some groups who do not practice baptism: If baptism is symbolic of something inward and spiritual, then the inward/spiritual transformation is the real thing. If we have the real thing, why do we need the symbol that represents it? Especially when the symbol is so often confused for the real thing.

Some of those same groups also do not practice sharing the bread and wine to remember Christ. For "the real thing" is spiritually feeding on Christ (" unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you" John 6:53), so why should they need the symbol? Why should they eat a piece of physical bread and take a sip of wine?

Paul wrote to the Corinthians (11: 23-26)

For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."

In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

So was the communion or eucharist applicable only to that time, too? Maybe salvation itself applied only to those days!

Clearly, according to Paul, the sharing of the bread and wine in commemoration of Christ, was to be continued until He comes. So it ought to be practised by us 21st-century disciples, since Christ hasn't come yet.

Oops, I forgot about the full preterists! Christ already came in 70 A.D.! So maybe we don't need to continue having communion after all!

Paidion, I know that last sentence was intended to mock the view of people like me but what it did is only support the fact that you do not understand the Lord's Supper. If you wish I will explain it to you.