CHRISTIAN ZIONISM & ISRAEL

[Mellontes]

This thread will be devoted to the supplying of Internet links to videos, articles and other media forms for the sole purpose of informing those who are pro-Israel, whether it be directly or indirectly related to Zionism and other supporting agencies. I will not be interacting with anyone on this thread. It is strictly for information purposes only. For those interested in submitting their own links, may I ask you to PM them to me and I will add as received to my original list (for a nice neat package):

Link #01 - http://www.occupation101.com (highly recommended)
See also the full length video on Google: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... ation+101#

Link #02 - http://www.stephensizer.com/podcast (various materials, he has a book called Zion Christian Soldiers)
Link #03 - http://www.ifamericansknew.org (high recommend)
Link #04 - http://vimeo.com/5976685
Link #05 - http://www.withgodonourside.com/index.html (soon to be released movie)
Link #06 - http://www.christianzionism.org (especially http://www.christianzionism.org/Articles.asp)
Link #07 - http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e23997.htm (inside Britain's Israel Lobby)
Link #08 - http://globe-watch.blogspot.com/2007/12 ... -land.html (Peace and Propaganda - The Promised Land)
Link #09 - http://www.alternativeinsight.com/israe ... Part1.html (Israel's Mid-East Conflict)
Link #10 - http://whtt.org/ (We Hold These Truths)
Link #11 - http://notsylvia.wordpress.com/about-zionism/about-war (Includes the 5-part series of "Peace and Propaganda - The Promised Land")
Link #12 -

[TK]

call me uninformed (i dont mind) but can someone give a quick definition of "Zionism" or "christian zionism?" They are terms i hear quite often but i am never quite sure exactly what they mean. I know there are christians who think the temple will be rebuilt, and are breeding red heifers, and things like that, but I am sure there is more to it than that.

Thanks!

TK

[darinhouston]

Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is the international political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish people in the Land of Israel (Hebrew: Eretz Yisra'el), the historical homeland of the Jews. Since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily to support it.

Zionism is based on the foundation of historical ties and religious traditions linking the Jewish people to the Land of Israel, where the concept of Jewish nationhood first evolved somewhere between 1200 BCE and the late Second Temple era (i.e. up to 70 CE).[1] Two millennia after the Jewish diaspora, the modern Zionist movement, beginning in the late 19th century, was mainly founded by secular Jews, largely as a response by Ashkenazi Jews to antisemitism across Europe, especially in Russia.[2] The re-creation of a Jewish national homeland was also strongly advocated by American activists, such as Louis Brandeis, as a solution to this "Jewish problem" and a way to "revive the Jewish spirit."[3]

Christian Zionism is a belief among some Christians that the return of the Jews to the Holy Land, and the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, is in accordance with Biblical prophecy. It overlaps with, but is distinct from, the nineteenth century movement for the Restoration of the Jews to the Holy Land, which had both religiously and politically motivated supporters. The term Christian Zionism was popularized in the mid-twentieth century. Prior to that time the common term was Restorationism.[citation needed]

Some Christian Zionists believe that the "ingathering" of Jews in Israel is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus. This belief is primarily, though not exclusively, associated with Christian Dispensationalism. The idea that Christians should actively support a Jewish return to the Land of Israel, along with the parallel idea that the Jews ought to be encouraged to become Christian, as a means fulfilling a Biblical prophecy has been common in Protestant circles since the Reformation.[1][2][3].

Many Christian Zionists believe that the people of Israel remain part of the chosen people of God, see also Dual-covenant theology, along with the ingrafted (based on Romans 11:17-24, Holy Bible) Gentile Christians. This has the added effect of turning Christian Zionists into supporters of Jewish Zionism.

[TK]

i must have been feeling pretty lazy if i didnt even want to look on wikipedia. thanks Darin! pretty much what i thought. i don't get it, but interesting nonetheless.

TK

[Mellontes]

Christian Zionism has been active in North American politics for some time. On a per capita basis, the amount of U.S. foreign aid going to Israel is equivalent to $10,000.00 versus $79.00 for the rest of the world. U.S. foreign aid to Palestine = NOTHING.

Christians volunteer for these organizations and donate their money to support Israel. This is not time or money well spent. I encourage every one to find out why. Is Israel God's people or are Christians God's people. Look into the Balfour Declaration and see how it impacted the Jews. Find out why the declaration was issued in the first place. Learn why Hitler persecuted the Jews with such fervor. But most of all, understand what Israel is doing to the Palistinian population. This is absolutely mandatory.

And for the record, I am not the least bit anti-Semitic. There are many futurists that directly support Zionistic endeavours (all that back to the land stuff) knowing full well, that according to their eschatological paradigm, TWO-THIRDS of them will be destroyed at the alleged future coming of Christ. Now, that is an anti-Semitic attitude!

Agree or disagree, but inform yourself.

[Allyn]

i must have been feeling pretty lazy if i didnt even want to look on wikipedia. thanks Darin! pretty much what i thought. i don't get it, but interesting nonetheless.

TK

Hi TK,

From a past friend of mine who is entrenched in Christian Zionism, Zionism is the political side of the beast.

[steve7150]

Within days after the United Nations voted Israel into existence in 1948 , 6 armies from 6 Arab countries attacked Israel for the purpose of wiping it out from the face of the earth. Somehow Israel with no heavy weapons, and no tanks actually won but that did'nt stop Arab countries from repeatedly attacking Israel trying to annihilate it over the ensuing years and drive the population into the sea to quote their own words.
Israel has only to lose one war and it's existence is over. Every confrontation is a matter of survival. If any one with an ounce of objectivity observes that when the PLO , Hamas or Hezbollah attack Israel , they attack civilians directly for the purpose of spreading terror among the population. Israel now has very restrictive checkpoints to enter their country because of suicide bombers who have blown themselves up on buses in the past.
The Palestinian people (ex-Jordenians - renamed by Arafat) have an opportunity now to develop a real economy based on technology as many of their young people are very smart and technologically oriented. It's time for them to move forward in a productive way and develop their economy and lives in a positive way. They have every opportunity to move in a better direction.
BTW now we have yet another muslim leader who denied the holocost ever happened and vows to wipe out Israel as his country Iran develops nuclear weapons. Stay tuned for further developments.
All these Israel haters always state they are not anti-semetic. I remember once on TV i saw a KKK guy say "some of my best friends are negroes."

[Allyn]

Within days after the United Nations voted Israel into existence in 1948 , 6 armies from 6 Arab countries attacked Israel for the purpose of wiping it out from the face of the earth. Somehow Israel with no heavy weapons, and no tanks actually won but that did'nt stop Arab countries from repeatedly attacking Israel trying to annihilate it over the ensuing years and drive the population into the sea to quote their own words.
Israel has only to lose one war and it's existence is over. Every confrontation is a matter of survival. If any one with an ounce of objectivity observes that when the PLO , Hamas or Hezbollah attack Israel , they attack civilians directly for the purpose of spreading terror among the population. Israel now has very restrictive checkpoints to enter their country because of suicide bombers who have blown themselves up on buses in the past.
The Palestinian people (ex-Jordenians - renamed by Arafat) have an opportunity now to develop a real economy based on technology as many of their young people are very smart and technologically oriented. It's time for them to move forward in a productive way and develop their economy and lives in a positive way. They have every opportunity to move in a better direction.
BTW now we have yet another muslim leader who denied the holocost ever happened and vows to wipe out Israel as his country Iran develops nuclear weapons. Stay tuned for further developments.
All these Israel haters always state they are not anti-semetic. I remember once on TV i saw a KKK guy say "some of my best friends are negroes."

Steve isn't rather disingenuous of you to note only what you did and not mention in the year before that 1000s of innocent Arabs who had lived in the land with title and right to the land they owned were slaughtered by the Israeli occupiers town by town? All for their precious Zionism. All of which you seem to approve of. I think I would have something to say about that too if I were the arabs.

[steve7150]

Steve isn't rather disingenuous of you to note only what you did and not mention in the year before that 1000s of innocent Arabs who had lived in the land with title and right to the land they owned were slaughtered by the Israeli occupiers town by town? All for their precious Zionism. All of which you seem to approve of. I think I would have something to say about that too if I were the arabs.





This is not the scenerio i have heard. What i've heard is that the Arab countries announced they would be attacking Israel and informed their Arab brothers to flee Israel or risk being killed along with the jews. If atrocities happened and i'm sure that some did happen it's terrible but now we are in the year 2010 and it's time for the Palestinians to develop their economy and society which they have the opportunity to do.
Within Israel, arabs can vote,can participate in govt,can follow their religion and can run their businesses. Do we see the same basic human rights for jews in muslim countries? Why is this situation politically acceptable and nothing is ever said about it yet Israel is constantly examined under a microscope?
The "precious Zionism" you reference is the same desire every other etnic group on earth has to desire their own country , yet for only jews is it alluded to as evil.
Last thing, i often hear the jews in Israel called "unbelieving jews" yet arabs are never called "unbelieving muslims" though 99% are not christians.

[kaufmannphillips]

Mellontes wrote:
On a per capita basis, the amount of U.S. foreign aid going to Israel is equivalent to $10,000.00 versus $79.00 for the rest of the world. U.S. foreign aid to Palestine = NOTHING.

Horse apples. The US provides nothing in military aid to the Palestinians (overtly, anyway – who among us knows what the CIA is doing?). But there is more to the picture.
One of your own references above states (drawing upon a Congressional Research Service report “U.S. Foreign Aid to the Palestinians,” updated February 20, 2009):

“The U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) has provided the Palestinian people with some indirect economic assistance through funds distributed to U.S.-based NGOs operating in the West Bank and Gaza. According to the CRS report, ‘Funds are allocated in this program for projects in sectors such as humanitarian assistance, economic development, democratic reform, improving water access and other infrastructure, health care, education, and vocational training. The program is subject to a vetting process and to yearly audits...’

In addition, some funding has occasionally been provided directly to the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority (PA) in an attempt to strengthen it against competing political parties (particularly Hamas) and for use in policing the Palestinian people. Such funds are usually only authorized once Congress has received proof that they will be used for ‘non-lethal assistance.’

The United States also provides funding to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), ‘which provides food, shelter, medical care, and education for many of the original refugees from the 1947-1949 Arab-Israeli war and their families—now comprising approximately 4.6 million Palestinians in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, the West Bank, and Gaza.’

$225 million have been appropriated for economic aid to the Palestinians and $75 million for support of PA police training, etc. for FY2009. The U.S. also provided just over $61.5 million (as of February 13, 2009) in emergency humanitarian aid through USAID, UNRWA, and the International Committee of the Red Cross following Israel's assault on Gaza.”

Besides this, the United States is not the only government to allocate foreign aid. Another CRS report for Congress, dated October 9, 2007, stated “The Palestinians are the largest per capita recipients of foreign aid worldwide….” When other nations bankroll the Palestinians, there is less need for the United States to allocate aid. And many of these other nations are hostile toward Israel, and presumably offer it no foreign aid of any kind, military or otherwise.

Mellontes wrote:
Is Israel God's people or are Christians God's people.

Why, Ted – I didn’t know you were a fan of Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxies! After all, most Palestinian Christians belong to one or another of these sects. Tell me – which of these Christianities are you most appreciative of, and why?

But in answer to your question, there are Jews who are G-d’s people, and Christians who are G-d’s people, and Jews who are not G-d’s people, and Christians who are not G-d’s people. But this can complicate things for somebody looking to “rah rah team!”

Mellontes wrote:
But most of all, understand what Israel is doing to the Palistinian population.

But in the context of what the Palestinian population has been doing to Israel, natch.

Mellontes wrote:
Learn why Hitler persecuted the Jews with such fervor.

Is this really a wise rhetorical maneuver? I should thank you for so carelessly ensuring that many people will no longer listen to what you have to say.