psalms, hymns and spiritual songs...

[Guest]

In Ephesians 5:18-21, Paul admonishes :

And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21 submitting to one another in the fear of *God.

What is the difference between psalms, hymns or spiritual songs? Is Paul describing the same thing with three different words or is he specifying three different musical types of worship?

Also, why would he say "speaking" instead of singing since he goes on to tell them to make melody in their hearts to the Lord?

[Guest]

The passage in Ephesians has a close parallel in Colossians 3:16. I am inclined to agree with the comments of F.F. Bruce, in his commentary on these passages.

Both the Ephesians and the Colossians passages might be more easily understood if they were punctuated differently (the punctuation is not found in the Greek manuscripts, but is suppied by the translators). Here is how the passages are punctuated, for example, in the New King James Version:

Col.3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom,
teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Eph.5:18-19
be filled with the Spirit,
speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord...

Now, suppose the punctuation was changed to read:

Col.3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly:
in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another;
in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Eph.5:18-19
be filled with the Spirit [literally, "in Spirit"], speaking to one another;
in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord...

This punctuation scheme would make the terms "in wisdom" and "in Spirit" modify the verbs, "speaking," "teaching" and "admonishing," and the verb "singing" would be modified by the phrase "in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs." This would seem to make more sense.

On the other hand, the idea that the members of the church might be exhorted to teach and admonish each other in song is not unthinkable. Early Christians often sang antiphonally—meaning, one person or group would sing one part, and another group would answer with a responsive part. Our practice of "singing in rounds" or alternating: "Just the women on verse 2," and "Just the men on verse 3," would be similar, in principle.

Such antiphonal singing might be seen as the members of the respective groups teaching or admonishing each other in the words of their songs.

With reference to the threefold categorization of "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs," Bruce says essentially what I have believed for many years. He writes:

"It is unlikely that any sharply demarcated division is intended, although the 'psalms' might be drawn from the OT Psalter...the 'hymns' might be Christian canticles (some of which are reproduced, in whole or in part, in the NT text), and the 'spiritual songs' might be unpremeditated words sung 'in the Spirit'..." ["The New International Commentary on the New Testament: The Epistles to the Colossians, to Philemon, and to the Ephesians," Eerdmans, 1984, pp.158-159]

In an ancient letter from Pliny the Younger, Christian worship practice was described as reciting "an antiphonal hymn to Christ as God." [Pliny, "Epistles" 10:96]

Tertullian also mentions a point in the worship service in which "each is invited to sing to God in the presence of the others from what he knows of the holy scriptures or from his own heart." [Tertullian, "Apology" 39:18]

[Guest]

Thanks Steve.

Punctuation can really clarify or obfuscate.

With the understanding that many songs sung as worship choruses are not glorifying to God, what are your thoughts on the current worship part of US church services?

If you organized some worship through song, what would it look like and why?

Should the worship songs be strictly verses from Scripture or is it ok if they merely describe or reflect Scriptural ideas and concepts?

Does the worship portion involve the congregation enough? If not, how can that be improved?

[Guest]

Anyone got any thoughts on this?

[Guest]

schoel....I believe that the aposltle Paul was encouraging all the members of the body of Christ to function or participate in the church meetings. I believe what has happened in the Christian church as a whole over the centuries is against the original intent of Paul in ecouraging the functioning of the members of the body. By saying this I do not mean that we do not need able teachers in the word and that this should also be very much a part of the "Church Life". Paul said to the Corinthians "Ye can all prophecy one by one, that all may learn and all may be comforted."
Being filled in spirit or with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs should be a part of our church meeting life. And it should be something spontaneous....not something from some "church" program( a piece of paper telling us all what to do next.)

[Guest]

But what did Jesus sing? See Matt. 26:30 & Mark 14:26 - no doubt they sang the Hallel, all or part of Psalms 113-118. Nothing spontaneous but part of the Passover "program" it would seem. I rather suspect Jesus was a bit more ritualistic than we would like to admit. Regular synagogue attendance (Luke 4:16), keeping the Passover, insisting on being baptized and demanding His disciples do the same, instituting a new memorial ritual (communion), and then going to the cross.

Regarding the passages in Col. 3:16 and Eph. 5:18-19 the punctuation suggested by Bruce reads rather clumsily to me. It seems entirely reasonable to me for much of the singing to be directed to one another in exhortation and encouragement, after all, that is what much of the New Testament consists of.

[Guest]

So that only leaves making melody in your hearts to the Lord. What does that mean anyway? Meditating about music? I think that Bruce's punctuation makes the passage much more practical, more of an instruction about how to worship.

My preference would be that all the singing part of worship would be from scripture. It makes it easier to memorize for me. Also, a lot of the newer music seems kinda dorky to me. Maybe I'm just getting too old or something.

Speaking as a member of the congregation, I don't always participate in the singing for a number of reasons. First, the dorkiness factor. Some of the songs even move out of dorky into downright embarrassing. Second is that only the words are flashed up on the screen and I don't know if I'm supposed to be singing, listening to the soloist, or what. And if the power-point person is distracted, the words don't always match what the leaders are singing anyway. Thirdly, some of the songs don't seem very edifiying to the body or glorifying to the Lord.

One other thing: the idea of exhorting and encouraging one another with singing, which although I agree is a good idea, makes me think of Mother Superior in The Sound of Music belting out Climb Every Mountain.

[Guest]

I agree with you totally Michelle....good words. I don't mean to offend anyone but but I much prefer the older hymns and songs from the scriptures and not the "Dorky" songs that you refer too. I don't even like to participate in that.

[Guest]

I'm going to have to agree with your sentiments as well, Michelle and Roger.

[Guest]

Michelle & Roger,

I very strongly agree with your sentiments re the singing that is popular today! Most of what are called praise songs I call vegatarian: devoid of meat. I read where a Mennonite referred to them as 7-11 songs. Seven words repeated eleven times!

As for me, they can sell the Powerpoint, get out the song books and a song leader whose objective is to get the people singing. With the song books people could at least stay on the same page.