Joice Meyer? International School of Ministry (ISOM)

[_Aaron Toews]

However i think they do not use all of scripture just the parts that seem to support their theology.

Good point Steve7150.

Also, the problem is they try to make blanket statments about God.

Like thay say that God never gives anyone sickness even tho he said to Moses that he created the blind and deaf. And (using the scriptures you brought up) they say God will always heal. As if everything with God is black and white.

They quote the scriture that says that if we pray in faith God will give us what we ask, but they ignore the parts that say..."according to his will".

They convince their followers that they are not as useful to God if they are weak (sick) or poor. They forget that its to Gods glory to use to weak so that we cannot boast.

They say how does God get the Glory if we are poor? Yet the greatest testamonies come from people who did the mission set before them while thy had NO earthly resourses. They tell tales of God bailing them out again and again. If they had been rich...money would have got the glory...as if money needs any more (glory).

I have repeatedly heard..."how is God going to take the gospel to the ends of the earth if his church does not have enough money to fund the end time crusades." However God is not dependent on whether or not we are rich as if God needs earthly power to do his will.

We just have to be faithfull with what we have and God will multiply it and do as he wishes. Like Jesus and the feeding of the 5000. He didnt tell the disciples to get rich so that God could feed the people...he took what was there and did his will. And...I cant remember where, but God even told Isreal to fight with less troops so that when they won, all would reconize that God is God, not our earthly resources.

Kennith Copeland said (Im paraphrasing)..."God does not use problems to teach me anything...thats what I have my bible for." As if to say that no real life expierence is needed to become what God wants us to be.

Could you imagine if all we needed to get our drivers licence was to read a book with out ever spending time learning how to drive on the road? The thought is rediculace.

Never mind that but it is the exact oppisite to what Hebrews 12 says about God chasening the ones he loves.

So in long, I agree that they ignore various scripures to preach this doctorine...but another huge problem is that thay grossly mischaracterize God in many ways.

[Guest]

Concerning Joyce Meyer, some peeps in my Bible study mentioned reading her book, "Battlefield of the Mind". I suspected her of being a word of faith teacher, so I read the book myself.
I was surprised to find virtually nothing related to word of faith theology in the book. It wasn't a great book, and it had what I considered some very minor theological issues, but overall it seemed orthodox. She even covered suffering from a sound doctrinal perspective.
I ended up wondering why her name often appears with some who teach outright heresy.

[_Aaron Toews]

Well... I have heard her speak on some word of fath prosperity stuff which was more or less up to par with Kennith Copland. She Just dosent talk about it nearly as much as he does.

Apart from that I, like your self was thinking about if she is really as bad as some say she is.

I told my friend this, that she dosent seem to always teach the word of faith stuff, then he said he heard a sound bite of her saying that if we dont believe that Jesus suffered in Hell after he died on the cross we are not saved. He said he heard it on Hank Hanegraaffs show.


If this is true it raises a red flag.

[Guest]

Although I think Joice Meyer is word of faith, but to a much lesser degree than others that she is affiliated with, I personally have a problem with the emphisis of her teachings. It seems to me she teaches the trinity of self (Me, Myself, and I).

Like all prosperity teachers, the whole emphisis on her teachings is to improve yourself materially. Instead of being Christ-centered, its Self-centered.

In Ezekiel the false prophets were telling everyone everything they wanted to hear...they were tickling theyre ears to make them feel good.
The true prophet of God tells people what they don't nessisarilly want to hear, and challenges people to live more Godly, to be more Holy.

In 2Tim.4:3-5, Paul warns Timothy that the time will come when people will not endure sound doctrine, but rather hear teachings according to their own desires, he says they will turn their ears away from the truth.
But Paul says...hey preach the word.

[Guest]

Joyce Meyer and Joel Osteen are "word of faith" light a toned down version. But in all fairness Hank Hanagraff has repeated that about a thousand times that JM and JO say if you don't believe Christ went to hell and defeated the devil you won't be saved. They have'nt said that in at least 10 years yet he keeps repeating it.
Another thing they warn about is the words we speak must be faith filled because if we speak words of doubt it gives the devil legal permission to mess with our lives.

[_Aaron Toews]

Good point Steve7150. If they have not tought this about Jesus suffering in hell for 10 years that should be noted.

However, it should be also noted that if they have not since publicly renounced this horrible doctorin that they once tought, if they have not clarified their new posion on the issue, it is very possible that they still hold these views.

Since they are in the public spot light and their old teachings are out there in circulation, if they dont renounce these teachings publicly it is quite possible to pick up a tape of Joyce Meyer and be convinced that this doctorin is true unless she clears things up for the hundreads of thousands of people who follow her.

If they have since publicly renounced this doctorin then it is almost as if they are still teaching it a new every time someone picks up their old material.

Think about Joseph Smith. Some years have passed since he has tought anything, but since he did not renouce is teaching, people are still mislead til this day. Joyce Meyers teaching is no where near as bad as him put you get my point.

If I we teach something false it is up to us to go back and set the record stright. If we take this lightly then we shold not be teachers as James tells us.

[Guest]

I've read several of John Bevere's books and have enjoyed almost all of them. The only one that I have read that I would really disagree with is his "Under Cover" book which is about authority.

I know that he does run with the word of faith crowd, but from some of the things I've read of his I wonder why they let him continue to preach at their services. (He has a book entitled "Thus Saith The Lord?" that would go against a lot of what goes on in the typical charismatic movement).

Anyway, I'm not necessarily putting my stamp of approval on Bevere (not that that would matter anyway), but his books have generally been an encouragement to me and I feel that I have learned a lot from reading them. And I haven't gotten any of the word of faith stuff from his teachings. I don't know about the others though.

[Guest]

Maybe because I am a woman. But I feel like Joyce Meyer has helped me in many ways draw closer to Christ and take responsibility for my actions. Maybe because I identify with her childhood. Mine was very similar. But I always felt she spoke to me with compassion and led me deeper to Gods word directly in scripture.

It has helped me lean on God more and go forward in my life. No turning back.So when you are all getting into debating word of faith ministiry stuff I personally cannot really relate to it much in what I have gleaned from her books.. I am thankful for the help I have personally received in several of her books. Just wanted to add that.

[_Aaron Toews]

Good point.

I myself went to a word of Faith church for a while. I still have to say that I was very encourged by their faith. I think that maney churches lack in some areas that they exceled. It realley seemed to me that they were even more on fire for God than most christians I knew.

I still think that they are very Godly. I now disagree with much of what they teach and I have scince told friends to test their doctorins.

I have not done this because Im against them but because I believe that we as christians need to constructively critisize each other. This keeps us in line with true doctorin. We may never have all our doctorins 100% all the time but we can remind each other when we are starting to stray.

I expect my frinds to do this to me also.

[Guest]

Maybe because I am a woman. But I feel like Joyce Meyer has helped me in many ways draw closer to Christ and take responsibility for my actions. Maybe because I identify with her childhood. Mine was very similar. But I always felt she spoke to me with compassion and led me deeper to Gods word directly in scripture.

Hi Glow, I'm not a women but i like Joyce also because she is inspiring especially in the morning when i can watch her or the Today show. I'm very aware of the Word of Faith doctrine because the lady who led me to the Lord four years ago is an enthusiastic Kenneth Hagin devotee. They believe words of doubt give entree or permission to the devil to wreck havoc in your life because it shows a lack of faith. And although i know it's not spelled out in scripture i tend to follow that teaching. I remember one instance they used for that was when the Holy Spirit zipped the lip of Zechariah , John the Baptists father when he disbelieved that Elizabeth could really be pregnant.