Slain before the foundation of the world...
Slain before the foundation of the world...
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Last edited by dizerner on Sun Feb 19, 2023 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- robbyyoung
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Re: Slain before the foundation of the world...
1 Peter 1:20 gives us the literal meaning of the decree (title of the post). Which is HE was chosen before creation. So no I don't mean HE was literally slain, but HE was necessarily by decree.
God bless.
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Robby Young
U.S. Army Retired
God bless.
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Robby Young
U.S. Army Retired
Re: Slain before the foundation of the world...
Alternate renderings of the verse:
(ASV) And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, every one whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain.
(CEV) The beast was worshiped by everyone whose name wasn't written before the time of creation in the book of the Lamb who was killed.
(LEB) And all those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name is not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
(WmsNT) All the inhabitants of the earth whose names, from the foundation of the world, have not been written in the slaughtered Lamb's book of life, will worship him.
(WEB (R)) All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been killed.
So, is it a reference to the "slaughtering" of the Lamb, or the "Book of Life" from the "foundation of the world"?
Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]
Re: Slain before the foundation of the world...
The Revised Standard Version and the English Standard Version translate Rev 13:8 it similarly:
However, the order of the Greek words would seem to favour "the lamb slain from the foundation of the world (or cosmos)". Also the Greek says "FROM" the foundation of the world. The Greek preposition "απο" NEVER means "before". This may simply mean that it was in the mind of God from the time of the foundation of the cosmos, until the Lamb of God was actually slain, to provide for the salvation of the mankind through the death of the Messiah.And all who dwell on earth will worship it, every one whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the lamb that was slain.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
- robbyyoung
- Posts: 811
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:23 am
Re: Slain before the foundation of the world...
1 Peter 1:20 coupled with the question at hand should clear it up, don't you think? If not, why not?Paidion wrote:The Revised Standard Version and the English Standard Version translate Rev 13:8 it similarly:
However, the order of the Greek words would seem to favour "the lamb slain from the foundation of the world (or cosmos)". Also the Greek says "FROM" the foundation of the world. The Greek preposition "απο" NEVER means "before". This may simply mean that it was in the mind of God from the time of the foundation of the cosmos, until the Lamb of God was actually slain, to provide for the salvation of the mankind through the death of the Messiah.And all who dwell on earth will worship it, every one whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the lamb that was slain.
God Bless.
Re: Slain before the foundation of the world...
I've always found these verses difficult no matter how I look at them. What was the "founding of the world"? Was it the "kosmos"? If so, what part of it? The physical universe? The creation of man? The "founding of the world" as we know it through the birth of the first human (Cain)?
Regards, Brenden.
Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]
Re: Slain before the foundation of the world...
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Last edited by dizerner on Sun Feb 19, 2023 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Slain before the foundation of the world...
Why would it? To be foreknown is not tantamount to having been chosen beforehand or predestined.Robby Young wrote:1 Peter 1:20 coupled with the question at hand should clear it up, don't you think? If not, why not?
The Online Bible Greek Lexicon defines the Greek verb "προγινοσκω" (to foreknow) as "to have knowledge beforehand."He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for your sake... (1 Peter 1:20)
Paul was foreknown by his fellow Jews. Does that imply that his fellow jews chose him, or predestinated him to work in his ministry? Paul said:
My manner of life from my youth, which was spent from the beginning among my own nation at Jerusalem, all the Jews know. They knew (προγινοσκω) me from the first, if they were willing to testify, that according to the strictest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. (Acts 26:4,5 NKJV)
From this, the most obvious meaning of Jesus having been foreknown before the foundation of the world (or cosmos) is that God knew Him, knew all about Him prior to creation—long before He knew Him as a human being that walked the earth.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
- robbyyoung
- Posts: 811
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:23 am
Re: Slain before the foundation of the world...
Paidion, what in the world are you disagreeing with me about? Both verses say, "before the foundation of the world", the difference is "slain & chosen or foreknowledge" which I don't have a problem with.Paidion wrote:Why would it? To be foreknown is not tantamount to having been chosen beforehand or predestined.Robby Young wrote:1 Peter 1:20 coupled with the question at hand should clear it up, don't you think? If not, why not?
The Online Bible Greek Lexicon defines the Greek verb "προγινοσκω" (to foreknow) as "to have knowledge beforehand."He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for your sake... (1 Peter 1:20)
Paul was foreknown by his fellow Jews. Does that imply that his fellow jews chose him, or predestinated him to work in his ministry? Paul said:
My manner of life from my youth, which was spent from the beginning among my own nation at Jerusalem, all the Jews know. They knew (προγινοσκω) me from the first, if they were willing to testify, that according to the strictest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. (Acts 26:4,5 NKJV)
From this, the most obvious meaning of Jesus having been foreknown before the foundation of the world (or cosmos) is that God knew Him, knew all about Him prior to creation—long before He knew Him as a human being that walked the earth.
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Robby Young
U.S. Army Retired