Does God foreknow future choices that we make?

[Guest]

are you suggesting that these three texts cannot mean that God existed prior to time starting?

That question is unanswerable, because if time had a beginning (and I believe it did), then it is meaningless to speak of "prior to time starting".
If there was any time "prior" then there must have been time prior to time starting! Surely this is altogether meaningless.

Scripture says He knows the end from the beginning

the end of what from the beginning?
If you read the statement in context, you will discover that the subject is God's plan. Of course God knows every aspect of His plans. This knowledge in no way implies that He knows every aspect of every choice that a person makes before that choice is made.

I have no reason, that I know of, to doubt that God knows every detail of the future.

I gave a reason ---- a logical reason. But it seems you are unwilling consider it.

The fact that He is God, by definition, seems to make this likely.

The fact that He is God does not make it at all likely that He performs actions which are inherently contradictory. Can He create a being that is both totally human and totally non-human? Can He make 2+2=4 and also make 2+2=5? Can He cause a flower to be totally yellow and totally blue simultaneously? Can He create a stone so large that He cannot lift it?
etc., etc., etc.

If you can believe in contradictions, it is your privilege. I can't.

And I can not think of any theological reason why that makes this limitation necessary.

The prime reason is a logical one, not theological. Yet there is plenty of scriptural evidence (which I have not yet brought forth).

[Guest]

I am always willing to consider things

I just don't find your argument convincing at this time

I see no contradiction in my belief that God knows future free will choices

And I found the tone of your post quite unlike what I've grown to expect from you. Hopefully I am just mis-reading.

God bless,
matthew

[Guest]

I don't know if any of you would be interested but I found the book No Other God by John M. Frame good.

If we truly have complete free will, meaning God cannot know the future, then how could we have accurate prophecy? To me that would imply the prophet knowing more than God, yet at the same time the prophet gets his info from God.

A) Prophet reveals future events
B) Prophet gets revelations from God about future
C) God doesn't know the future
=
D) There can be no Prophets
E) The prophet knows more than God!!!? or very lucky.
F) God isn't God as we know Him thru scripture.
D) I could add more, but I hope ya get my point

I find it highly unlikely that God doesn't know everything long before we even decide on an action ourselves. I totally disagree with Open theism.

Finally, Personally as far as the God making a rock he couldn't lift is silly. First God created the universe and if He choose to change how mathmatics works within His creation He could make 2 + 2 = 5 IMHO. The univeres, the laws of mathmatics, physics, etc are all Gods creation isn't it?

God Bless,

Jim

[Guest]

Once upon a time, (biblically: “in the beginning,” when God was all by Himself, He sovereignly chose to relate to mankind as His Word subsequently declares He does, that is, in a “linear” relationship, experiencing time passing with us. His perspective is definitely far beyond our own (“With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day”— 2 Pet. 3:8), that is, He sees the big picture that we as temporal beings cannot, but He makes it clear that He relates to us according to how we see time.

We can understand that from statements such as what He said to Abraham in Genesis 22:12, “Now I know that you fear God…” If words have meanings, up until that moment God did not absolutely know what Abraham, a free will being, would choose to do. If a person has genuine free will, then his choices cannot be absolutely known in advance of his decisions to make those choices, even by God—unless, of course, He says differently in His Word, which He does not.

Did God have a pretty good idea of what Abraham would do? Certainly. Couldn’t a good parent fairly accurately predict what his child would do in a given situation? Multiply that probability as much as God is bigger than we are, and you can begin to see how He can be so accurate in His predictions.

No doubt you agree that God knows everything that can be known. The question is whether or not He can absolutely know the future. Consider this: God knows every detail of the past and every detail of the present, including the thoughts, words, and deeds of every human being, and of Satan and his evil spirit minions. That knowledge, combined with His knowledge of His own will and His own ability, make Him able to predict the future with amazing accuracy. However, when it comes to biblical prophecy, we must distinguish between what is conditional and what is unconditional. God cannot lie, and when He makes an unconditional statement about what will happen in the future, He does so knowing that He has the wherewithal to bring it to pass without overstepping the free will of any human being (which is also something that, by His nature, God cannot do).

http://www.truthortradition.com/modules ... cle&sid=14

http://www.truthortradition.com/modules ... ew_topic=4

[Guest]

Hey Jesusfollower, just wondering...is there anything at truthortradition.com that you disagree with?

[Guest]

I don't know Michelle, is there anything in Othodox Christianity that you don't agree with?

[Guest]

Thank you for those explanations, JesusFollower. That's exactly the way I see it.

[Guest]

Hey Jesusfollower, just wondering...is there anything at truthortradition.com that you disagree with?

LOL...I was wondering the same thing.

[Guest]

I don't know Michelle, is there anything in Othodox Christianity that you don't agree with?

Yes

[Guest]

Perhaps this explanation is too simplistic, but I'm not a deep person, so I can only understand things in the simplest of terms.

The best explanation I've ever heard was given by David Kirkwood, who explained why God tests us (i.e. Abraham and Isaac). In essence, he said something like this: "God foreknows what your response to His tests will be, but if you never face those tests, there would be nothing to foreknow."

God's foreknowledge doesn't nullify free will; it simply means that God knows what choices we'll make before we do!

Think about the garden of Eden. If God would not have known for certain that Adam and Eve would sin, then why slay the lamb of God before the foundations of the world? The price for our sins was paid before the first sin was committed; it was simply ratified in time on the cross.

In my opinion, any argument that "God does not know absolutely" decreases God's sovereignty and increases my stress!