What IS sin, anyway?

Post by **_TK** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:34 pm

thanks, Paidion, for this exhaustive listing. it will come in handy.

one of the verses you posted brought something to mind:

Mt 1:21 she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.

i dont believe i have ever really noticed this before, but this verse seems to suggest that Jesus came not only to pay the penalty for our sins, but also to save us from our sins-- which i take to mean to save us from sinning, which accords with your earlier post.

since you probably have a greek lexicon handy, can you tell me if the word "from" in this verse can carry this meaning, or am i reading too much into this?

thanks! TK

Post by **_loaves** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:50 pm

Thanx for the Greek lesson, Paidion. I'm sure I can use it in my personal study.

I also have benefitted from Romans 14:23:

"... for whatsoever is not of faith is sin"

Post by **_glow** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:05 pm

YIKES

Thats alot of differents sins...I am even MORE thankful now after reading the list Paidion what Christ has done for me and all of us.....Glow

Post by **_Jesusfollower** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:50 pm

TK, according to young the Greek word is apo, from away from. What I get is, from the top of my head, he made the gift of holy spirit available and if we walk out on it and listen to the Lord Jesus and God himself through it we can have the strength to combat our sin nature with it's desires. Does that make any sense?

Post by **_Homer** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:21 pm

Paidion,

You said:

[151] hamartia — MISSING THE MARK and thus used in early Greek for “mistake”. In New Testament times, its use was broadened to include any wrongdoing.

I too have understood every category of sin to be encompassed in the word hamartia. Do you agree with the idea that there are different degrees of sin, and if so how would you rank the eight you listed? I realize this might be difficult for all eight.

Post by **_TK** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:09 am

thanks JF-- yes it does make sense-- thanks for checking!

TK

Post by **_Paidion** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:38 pm

i dont believe i have ever really noticed this before, but this verse seems to suggest that Jesus came not only to pay the penalty for our sins, but also to save us from our sins-- which i take to mean to save us from sinning, which accords with your earlier post

TK, there is no doubt that this verse states that Jesus came to save us from our sins, or to deliver us from our sins as other passages state.

I have found that the best way to find out how a Greek word is used is to look up other passages which contain it.

Consider the following:

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?..."

"To flee from the wrath to come" is definitely a move away from that wrath.

Matthew 5:30 "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you..."

To throw anything "from" you, is to cause it to move away from you.

If someone saves you "from" a fire, what he is doing is delivering you from the fire, moving you away from it so that you cannot be harmed by it.

Weh Jesus saves us "from" sin, what He is doing is delivering us from sin, with our coöperation, moving us away from it, so that we cannot be harmed by it.

As for "paying the penalty for sin", I see no scriptural evidence that that is what Jesus came to do. I think this is a man-made concept, probably arising from the Protestant revolution.

Hebrews 9:26 He has appeared once for all, at the end of the age to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Post by **_TK** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:44 pm

Paidion said--

As for "paying the penalty for sin", I see no scriptural evidence that that is what Jesus came to do. I think this is a man-made concept, probably arising from the Protestant revolution.

if you are right, then my sunday school teachers should be fired, because they taught me that Jesus died for my sins. Didn't he? what have i missed all these years? isnt that what the atonement was about-- jesus taking the penalty that we deserve?

i have always accepted that Jesus "died for my sins" and i have never really given it a second thought. i have heard various pastors make this statement at least a 1000 times. based on our prior discussions and your last post-- i have a feeling you are about to challenge me on this.

challenge away!

TK

Post by **_loaves** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:53 pm

TK wrote:Paidion said--

As for "paying the penalty for sin", I see no scriptural evidence that that is what Jesus came to do. I think this is a man-made concept, probably arising from the Protestant revolution.
if you are right, then my sunday school teachers should be fired, because they taught me that Jesus died for my sins. Didn't he? what have i missed all these years? isnt that what the atonement was about-- jesus taking the penalty that we deserve?

i have always accepted that Jesus "died for my sins" and i have never really given it a second thought. i have heard various pastors make this statement at least a 1000 times. based on our prior discussions and your last post-- i have a feeling you are about to challenge me on this.

challenge away!

TK

Ah! Here we are again...the subject on the atonement. While I disagree with Paidion, he has written quite a scholarly pamphlet on the subject:

http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=708

The subject at hand is "what is sin", not necessarily how it was attoned for. While the two subjects are obviously connected, let's stick to one subject for right now, pretty please?

Post by **_TK** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:10 am

hi loaves--

thanks for the reference to Paidion's treatise. i'll check it out there.

i agree that we should keep that discussion separate.

thx! TK