Jewish Race-an evolutionary term?

[Guest]

Hello,

A few months back, after listening to an audio of Steve's concerning the challenge of ascertaining just who is the Jewish race today (he assumed for the sake of argument the premill position that God would fulfill certain promises to the Jews), I posed this question myself on another message board and recieved the following from Roger Samsel:

"From the article…


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'The Jews As A Race: The findings of physical anthropology show that, contrary to the popular view, there is no Jewish race. Anthropornetric measurements of Jewish groups in many parts of the world indicate that they differ greatly from one another with respect to all the important physical characteristics…"

The fact that there is no Jewish race stirs up many relative issues. Of all the ramifications, which includes political right to the land of Palestine, the Scriptural implications are the most significant. It has been declared that the entire framework of the Dispensational model is the existence of a temporal nation of Israel, throughout eternity. Obviously, if the nation that they call the heir of Israel is shown to have no relationship to the pre-desolation nation, there is no credibility to that system.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



We need to bear a couple of things in mind here. First, the purpose of this article is to assault and cast doubt on the identity of Israel as a chosen people. This is pseudo-science, faulty scholarship and anti-Semitic to the core. It is also illogical. Notice that the author states a premise: there are no distinctive physical characteristics to identify Jews as a “race.” And from that premise he concludes: therefore, the modern nation of Israel is shown to have no relationship to the pre-desolation nation. I can’t imagine a more glaring logical fallacy.

What he is postulating is that there must be at least one physical feature that is common to every Jew and also not possessed by any non-Jew. Any physical feature will do: dark skin, bushy hair, big noses, a sixth finger, anything. Since no such physical feature can be identified, therefore, he concludes that the people calling them Jews are actually imposters. Let me get on to the second point and I’ll make this a little clearer.

Secondly, and more importantly, the concepts of “race” and “racial purity” are evolutionary concepts, not Biblical ones. In evolutionary thought, a “race” is a subspecies of Homo sapiens that evolved distinct, genetically transmissible physical traits through the process of micro-mutation. I do not believe in evolution, therefore, I do not believe in “race.” When we use these terms in this context, we are in effect trying to find a Biblical solution to a man-made problem that does not really exist from God’s perspective. And forgive the cliché, but you just can’t give a good answer to a bad question. Scripturally, there is no such thing as race. Rather, the Bible speaks of descendents and anyone who is a descendent of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is an Israelite. It is really that simple.

Biblically and historically, Jacob and Esau were as closely related as two people can possibly be (twins), and yet the descendents of Jacob were Israelites, the chosen nation, and the descendents of Esau were not. Could these racial “scientists” identify the “distinct, genetically transmissible physical traits” that distinguish the descendents of Jacob and Esau? Could they do so in the first generation? The second? The third? Of course not! It is no less foolish to try after a hundred generations than it is after three.

Historically, the Israelites who were dispersed after the destruction of the 1st and 2nd temples have maintained distinct communities and a distinct identity. And they have done so for all of the last 2500 years. Yes, there are individual exceptions in both directions. But on the whole, they have maintained their identity. Since the second temple was destroyed, all of the family records have been lost. Is that a problem? Well, not for God. You can be sure that God has not lost track.

I think the proper Biblical perspective on ethnicity and destiny is found in a simple statement by Paul in Acts 17.

24 God, who created the world, and everything in it, He Himself being Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in man-made shrines,
25 nor is He healed by human hands as though He were in need of anything - He who gives to everyone life, and breath, and all things.
26 He also made of one blood every nation [ethnos] of men to dwell upon the whole face of the earth -- having divided suitable portions that He commanded for them, and the boundaries of their dwelling places,
27 in order that they might seek the Lord, if perhaps at least they might feel after Him and find Him, though, indeed, He is not far from each one of us,
28 for in Him we live, and move, and exist; as also certain of your poets have said: For of Him also we are offspring. Roger’s translation

Notice carefully the distinct features of verses 26 and 27:

1. There is really only one “race” or “blood” and all people are descended from it.

2. From that one blood, God made every nation of men to dwell on the whole face of the earth.

3. God divided the earth giving a suitable portion to each nation [ethnos] as He commanded, and He set the boundaries.

4. God intended the nations to seek Him and find Him.

What is a suitable portion for each nation? Who knows anymore? I think that in the beginning (Genesis 10 – the table of nations), God must have made this known somehow. The only nation that we have an actual record of what God commanded as a suitable portion is the nation of Israel. As for the rest, we know that rebellion against His command began very early (Genesis 11). Moreover, we now have had many centuries of human greed, that is, lust for more than what is suitable and all the wars and atrocities that has occasioned. But just as God has promised to restore the believers of Israel to their suitable portion that He commanded for them in the holy land, I think He will also restore the rest of the believing nations to their proper habitations. And everyone will receive an inheritance therein according to his or her faithfulness."

http://p214.ezboard.com/fthechristianca ... ic&index=3

Brian

[Guest]

So how much "Jewish blood" do you have to have in you to qualify for the receiving of "God's promises to the Jews in the future"? Anything over 50%? What if you have only 10%? Or 5%?

Or do you have to be Jewish in religion to inherit the promises? A friend of mine used to be a Baptist, and often gave testimony to her regeneration in Christ. Later on, she married a Jew, and became a Jew herself. Does she qualify for "inheriting God's promises to the Jews?

When Golda Meier (spelling?) was prime minister of Israel, there was a question in the nation of Israel as to what a Jew actually is. The answer to the question was important, in that only Jews were allowed to settle in the land. Prime Minister Golda had an answer:

"Anyone crazy enough to admit that he is a Jew is a Jew!"

[Guest]

I ask (not as a challenger, but as a learner), since God divorced Israel for her spiritual adultary, is He obligated to fulfill any promises He made to her as a nation or as a race? Weren't His promises conditioned upon Israel's faithfulness?

In terms of the New Covenant (the New Testament), is not the Church the bride of Christ now? -- which would include converted Jews as well as converted aborigines, and converted Swedes.

In Christian love,

Hunnicutt

[Guest]

Paidion has a great point.

[Guest]

He goes on to say: "Historically, the Israelites who were dispersed after the destruction of the 1st and 2nd temples have maintained distinct communities and a distinct identity. And they have done so for all of the last 2500 years. Yes, there are individual exceptions in both directions. But on the whole, they have maintained their identity."

This is an assertion with no evidence given to support it. Interestingly, after correcting Steve G about pointing to identifiers, he uses two: communities and identity. So does that mean if someone lives in a Jewish commumity and identifies himself as a Jew that makes them Jewish? The poster just pointed out the error of this logic by bringing up Jacob and Esau. So if it's not a blood relation, then what is it? I'm curious now. I'm also wondering what "Identity" specifiaclly means. Is this religious convictions?

There is no question that jews have maintained distinct communities and maintained their identities to an amazing and in my opinion supernatural degree.
Throughout the dark and middle ages they were subject to pogroms to crusaders to isolation to inquisitions to concentration camps to being barred from owning land and scapegoating.
Yet even to this day they have very distinct communities and where i live they have separate towns dedicated to their way of life and religion. I'm referring to hassidic communities but since secular jews intermarry they will ultimately probably disappear.
Hitler believed the jews were a race to the third generation with any jewish blood. So if they are a race then would'nt it be defined as decendents of the tribe of Judah? Judaism is certainly a religion that the hassidem cherish and it certainly is a culture.

[Guest]

I ask (not as a challenger, but as a learner), since God divorced Israel for her spiritual adultary, is He obligated to fulfill any promises He made to her as a nation or as a race? Weren't His promises conditioned upon Israel's faithfulness?

God did divorce the 10 northern tribes but not the tribe of Judah and one other tribe , possibly Benjamin.

[Guest]

Thanks for the reply, Steve7150.

I was not aware that God divorced only part of Isreal. Can you (or anyone else out there) provide me with some Scriptural references so I can do some follow-up study?

Thanks, brother.

In Christian love,

Hunnicutt

[Guest]

Hello,

Isaiah 50 and Jeremiah 3 hold the relevant passages.

Shalom,
Emmet

[Guest]

Dan 6:25-7:1

25 Then King Darius wrote:

To all peoples, nations, and languages that dwell in all the earth:

Peace be multiplied to you.

26 I make a decree that in every dominion of my kingdom men must tremble and fear before the God of Daniel.

For He is the living God,
And steadfast forever;
His kingdom is the one which shall not be destroyed,
And His dominion shall endure to the end.
27 He delivers and rescues,
And He works signs and wonders
In heaven and on earth,
Who has delivered Daniel from the power of the lions.

28 So this Daniel prospered in the reign of Darius and in the reign of Cyrus the Persian.
NKJV

It appears that the whole world converted to Judaism at some point. Or at least the Persians (modern day Iranians).

[Guest]

Hi, Christopher,

It appears that the whole world converted to Judaism at some point. Or at least the Persians (modern day Iranians).

I see that you are laughing, so I won't take you too seriously here. But it is more likely that (if the story is indeed historical, which I doubt) Darius and his subjects were sufficiently polytheistic in mindset that honoring a foreign god who had demonstrated power and efficacy would have been quite logical. Or another scenario: depending upon the shape of Darius' possible Zoroastrianism, he may have correlated the Jews' God with his own Ahuramazda (like "Lord," a title more than a name).

Shalom,
Emmet