Would you give up your salvation if.......

Post by **_Jim** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:50 am

I have asked this question at the church I attend.

Here are the parameters: God asks you to reject Him. He promises to bring your 10 worst sinners to salvation for you obedience.

Would you give up your salvation and be forsaken of God if giving up your salvation would bring 10 people to Christ and salvation?

Jim

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:45 am

Well, in this scenario, to reject God would be to obey Him but obedience is not rejection, so its a fallacious question. Secondarily, having dialoged with God face-to-face how could one then reject Him? Additionally, the question paints God as a capricious being, akin to the pagan gods, who would strike bargains with men. This is not the God of the Bible. Also, unless perhaps one is a Calvinist, the idea of God promising to "bring your 10 worst sinners to salvation" violates their free will. Salvation can only be through faith in Christ, not through the obedience of a third party. I would have to conclude that I was, in fact, not dealing with God at all, but speaking with Satan who was trying to deceive me into rejecting God.

Post by **_Anonymous** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:50 am

Nice job, Mort. I'm glad you're back!

(I'm glad you changed your avatar, too. I used to worry about that kid.)

Post by **_TK** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:11 am

i was going to say something similar, mort, about it likely not being God making such a proposition, but i assumed jim was not trying to trick us, but rather asking if such a thing indeed happened, what would our response be. Paul said that he would gladly be accursed if the jews would accept his message (didnt he?)

so, assuming that God did present me with such a proposition (i.e. if you agree to go to hell i will save 10 people of your choice) my answer would be "no."

TK

Post by **_Anonymous** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:01 am

I would do it.

Post by **_TK** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:56 am

ok michelle- i have to ask "why?"

after i posted my note, it came to mind that if I KNEW which view of hell was correct, it might influence my decision. if eternal torment in the lake of fire is the correct view, or annihilation, i would say no. if a period of torment followed by ultimate redemption is correct, i may say yes. talk about wishy washy.

TK

Post by **_Anonymous** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:09 pm

TK,
Because when God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, the son that God promised to him and through whom the nation would come, Abraham figured that God would raise him from the dead, or something. Abraham believed God's promise even when the instructions seemed destined to thwart the promise. If God asked me to reject Him, I would have to obey and I would figure that something, somehow would enable God to keep His promise to never leave or forsake a follower.

Post by **_Allyn** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:27 pm

In a way, Jesus did just this thing (except He did not reject the Father) in that He was asked to give up His life for billions and was subjected to hell for a short while.

Post by **_Christopher** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:02 pm

Great answer Michelle!

I must admit that I personally don't have enough confidence in my own faith to know if I could carry out what is being described here or even what Abraham did with Isaac. I hope that there is extra grace given to carry out such commands by God. I suspect that there is.

TK wrote:

Paul said that he would gladly be accursed if the jews would accept his message (didnt he?)

Yep.

Rom 9:3
3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh,
NKJV

Post by **_TK** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:02 pm

just a clarification-- i took the original question as God ASKING me to give up my salvation, not COMMANDING that i do so. if it was a command (like the command to kill Isaac) then i would hope, like christopher, that i could obey. if God simply gave me the OPTION of doing so, i still dont think i would. i must be a wimp.

TK