I've tried talking to my son (5 yrs) about the Gospel since he was really young, and I don't really see him comprehending it. Maybe I'm using the wrong words.
Lately I've been thinking he's ready to hear it and accept Christ (even though I don't like that terminology). He attends church and AWANA, and he's started memorizing all kinds of Scripture. Seems like he should be ready.
What I'm wanting is advice on how to effectively share the message with him. I've looked in the Scriptures for guidance, but there's no Biblical example of children "praying the sinners' prayer" (I realize there's no adult example of that, either).
And another thing...yesterday our church had a baptism service, and there were kids who were being baptized 3 or 4 years after deciding to follow Christ. Now, I waited until I was 24 (even though I always considered myself Christian), but I've come to think that baptism should basically be concurrent with conversion. So, when my son professes faith in Christ, I'd like to have him baptized ASAP. My wife doesn't understand the rush...working on that.
And one more thing...we go to a Presbyterian Church. A good one...nothing very strange there, and there are many vibrant Christian folks there. But they normally baptize with a dip of water from a bowl. Not sure if this is sprinkling or pouring. I was immersed, but I'm not sure how important the method is. After all, if nothing is actually *accomplished* (i.e. washing away original sin like the Catholics teach), does the method matter?
Any help on these questions would be greatly appreciated.
Oooh...one more hypothetical. If someone decided to follow Christ, but never said "The Sinners' Prayer", but instead chose to go straight for baptism (professing faith, of course), would he be saved?
The Gospel message for Kids
The Gospel message for Kids
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Hey Seth,
For what its worth, I can tell you how I did it - All three of my grown children are saved believers:
It was our custom to take advantage of situations in life as illustrations on how to depend on God and choose His ways over our own.
I never forced the Bible on my kids but it became a natural part of their young lives through interesting Bible stories I would share with them as the story might relate to their everyday experiences.
I had a special time each week with each child, whether it be a trip to McDonalds or just star gazing. (which by the way was a very interesting way to listen to what each child thought about the Universe and the existance of God)
Only one of my children retained a commitment to Christ throughout her childhood into adulthood and the other two wandered off for a spell and then came back and are both dedicated Christians each having his and her own measure of faith. When they returned to Christ it was a wonderful experience to be a part of.
As far as my own attitude toward my responsibility for thier eternal well being, I made it perfectly clear that they and they alone could make the choice concerning Christ and likewise they and they along would have to take responsibility for their rejection of Christ if that was their choice. But my wife and I were always present and available along the way.
Ups and downs along the way are certain but God is faithful and my children have all experienced His faithfulness.
For what its worth, I can tell you how I did it - All three of my grown children are saved believers:
It was our custom to take advantage of situations in life as illustrations on how to depend on God and choose His ways over our own.
I never forced the Bible on my kids but it became a natural part of their young lives through interesting Bible stories I would share with them as the story might relate to their everyday experiences.
I had a special time each week with each child, whether it be a trip to McDonalds or just star gazing. (which by the way was a very interesting way to listen to what each child thought about the Universe and the existance of God)
Only one of my children retained a commitment to Christ throughout her childhood into adulthood and the other two wandered off for a spell and then came back and are both dedicated Christians each having his and her own measure of faith. When they returned to Christ it was a wonderful experience to be a part of.
As far as my own attitude toward my responsibility for thier eternal well being, I made it perfectly clear that they and they alone could make the choice concerning Christ and likewise they and they along would have to take responsibility for their rejection of Christ if that was their choice. But my wife and I were always present and available along the way.
Ups and downs along the way are certain but God is faithful and my children have all experienced His faithfulness.
As far as I'm concerned that is the only way to do it. A sinners prayer is fine and I find nothing saying one cannot or should not say it, but unless we confess before men how can we expect Christ to confess us before the Father.Oooh...one more hypothetical. If someone decided to follow Christ, but never said "The Sinners' Prayer", but instead chose to go straight for baptism (professing faith, of course), would he be saved?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Reason:
hi seth--
i would prefer full immersion, if for no other reason than it is more dramatic and memorable. it seems to be the biblical method, but this is not entirely clear in every case. however, if your church simply doesnt baptize via immersion (due to lack of facilities etc) i wouldnt be horrified over their method. the key, i suppose, is your son understanding the significance.
my 2 kids are a bit older, but i can sympathize with what you are saying re the gospel "sinking in." my kids know the facts, they profess to understand and believe what Jesus did, but i dont think it has really hit home for them to the point where i see any major life change. then again i was in the same boat as them (christian home, always considered myself christian, but never got serious about it until later 20s). of course i am always trying to think of ways to move them into real commitment and i am always praying.
i dont think a sinner's prayer is necessary; however, the natural thing to do when repenting is to ask God's forgiveness and to thank him for same. this begs the question of whether a person can make Jesus the Lord of their life without asking Him to be just that, or by telling Him that you accept Him as such. in other words, the natural outworking of true conversion would seem to include most elements of the sinner's prayer, whether or not it is said "in order to be" saved. actually, i think the encouragement to say a sinner's prayer may sometimes do more harm than good because it may result in false assurance.
TK
i would prefer full immersion, if for no other reason than it is more dramatic and memorable. it seems to be the biblical method, but this is not entirely clear in every case. however, if your church simply doesnt baptize via immersion (due to lack of facilities etc) i wouldnt be horrified over their method. the key, i suppose, is your son understanding the significance.
my 2 kids are a bit older, but i can sympathize with what you are saying re the gospel "sinking in." my kids know the facts, they profess to understand and believe what Jesus did, but i dont think it has really hit home for them to the point where i see any major life change. then again i was in the same boat as them (christian home, always considered myself christian, but never got serious about it until later 20s). of course i am always trying to think of ways to move them into real commitment and i am always praying.
i dont think a sinner's prayer is necessary; however, the natural thing to do when repenting is to ask God's forgiveness and to thank him for same. this begs the question of whether a person can make Jesus the Lord of their life without asking Him to be just that, or by telling Him that you accept Him as such. in other words, the natural outworking of true conversion would seem to include most elements of the sinner's prayer, whether or not it is said "in order to be" saved. actually, i think the encouragement to say a sinner's prayer may sometimes do more harm than good because it may result in false assurance.
TK
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)
Thanks for the replies.
I tried talking to him last night about The New Heavens and New Earth, and his question was, "Will we sleep in houses or tents?"
Yeah...not sure he's quite comprehending. But I walked him through John 3:16, which he knows, and tried to explain that it's important to believe in Jesus.
I think at this point he thinks that acknowledging belief in Jesus would result in not being on Earth anymore. And he likes Earth.
Back to baptism, I think we'll just take up the "go next door to the hotel and have the immersion service there" option. The other good thing is, it won't be quite as intimidating since we attend such a large church. The hotel option will make it so it's pretty much just family there. And families of anyone else going for immersion.
Any other insight on when I should get him baptized?
I tried talking to him last night about The New Heavens and New Earth, and his question was, "Will we sleep in houses or tents?"
Yeah...not sure he's quite comprehending. But I walked him through John 3:16, which he knows, and tried to explain that it's important to believe in Jesus.
I think at this point he thinks that acknowledging belief in Jesus would result in not being on Earth anymore. And he likes Earth.
Back to baptism, I think we'll just take up the "go next door to the hotel and have the immersion service there" option. The other good thing is, it won't be quite as intimidating since we attend such a large church. The hotel option will make it so it's pretty much just family there. And families of anyone else going for immersion.
Any other insight on when I should get him baptized?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Right now, I'm not going to address true salvation, or what it would mean to a young child, or how to lead him to regeneration.
However, I will say that I believe true baptism to be part of our submission to the authority of Christ, a necessity if one is to be regenerated.
Strictly speaking, pouring or sprinkling is not baptism. The word "baptize" means "immerse."
Yet, baptism is more than mere immersion. There are two Greek words that mean "immerse" or "dip." Fortunately we have a secular writing about 200 B.C., in which both words are used.
Baptō and Baptizō
The words are not to be confused.
The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizō is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be ‘dipped’ (baptō) into boiling water and then ‘baptised’ (baptizō) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change.
So if Christian baptism effects a permanent change in us, it must be more than a mere symbol of what has happened. Baptism itself must be a basic element in regeneration, as the scripture seems to teach.
However, I will say that I believe true baptism to be part of our submission to the authority of Christ, a necessity if one is to be regenerated.
Strictly speaking, pouring or sprinkling is not baptism. The word "baptize" means "immerse."
Yet, baptism is more than mere immersion. There are two Greek words that mean "immerse" or "dip." Fortunately we have a secular writing about 200 B.C., in which both words are used.
Baptō and Baptizō
The words are not to be confused.
The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizō is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be ‘dipped’ (baptō) into boiling water and then ‘baptised’ (baptizō) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change.
So if Christian baptism effects a permanent change in us, it must be more than a mere symbol of what has happened. Baptism itself must be a basic element in regeneration, as the scripture seems to teach.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
hi paidion--
just so i understand you, are you stating that something else "happens" during baptism than getting wet?
i.e. you seem to suggest it is more than symbolic. but i am not sure if you mean that baptism is part of the "formula," of regeneration, or whether something mystical (for lack of a better word) happens during the baptism.
i am very interested in reading your view on this.
thx!
TK
just so i understand you, are you stating that something else "happens" during baptism than getting wet?
i.e. you seem to suggest it is more than symbolic. but i am not sure if you mean that baptism is part of the "formula," of regeneration, or whether something mystical (for lack of a better word) happens during the baptism.
i am very interested in reading your view on this.
thx!
TK
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)
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_Christopher
- Posts: 437
- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 5:35 pm
- Location: Gladstone, Oregon
Hi Seth,
I also have a 5 year old (and a 2 year old) and have often pondered these very things myself. The conclusion I have personally come to is this…I’m not going to press the issue or rush it in any way.
I once saw this as a major item on my spiritual “to do” list. However, I know that God loves my kids infinitely more than I do and I’d rather not risk reducing that relationship to an impersonal transaction to make myself feel better. I regularly ask the Lord to break in on their lives and show His love to them in a very personal way.
Most of us desperately want to see our kids become true Christians and I think our tendency is to press it upon them before they really understand any of it. Children are very impressionable and many times do things only to please us or conform to their perceived external expectations. My gut feeling is that more often than not, kids that get “saved” are merely choosing between “good place” and “bad place” or are just giving mental assent for the approval of others (nothing more than peer pressure from parents, grand-parents, etc.). I think this can (and often does) lead to a false sense of security. By telling them to “accept Jesus” or get baptized before they really understand their own need for a Savior, I think we can too easily rob them of the necessary crisis with God that each sinner needs to experience before they realize their need for repentance. Our natural tendency is to want to spare our children of that painful (yet life giving) experience and go straight to getting them to “seal the deal”. But Jesus said,
Luke 18:16
"Let the little children come to Me”
NKJV
I tend to think that, like any other relationship they develop, kids come to know the Lord gradually over time by various encounters they have with Him. Hopefully, at some point in the development of that relationship, they come to know Him personally and recognize just how much they need Him, love Him, and want Him as their Lord. I see this developing in my own son. He’ll pray spontaneously, recognize answered prayers (even occasional healings), experience the joy of giving and serving others, etc. These are things I could never even hope to make him understand by a mere verbal presentation of the gospel.
My approach now is that I just want to be the kind of father to them as God is to me and lead by example. I want to allow God room to reach them through His own means in their own hearts. I don’t force bible reading on my son (although it is part of his home school curriculum), yet my son will often bring me his bible to read to him when he’s inspired to. I don’t make him pray, but encourage him to ask God for guidance and provision when the opportunity arises. I've talked to him a little about baptism and he really wants to do it. However, he's afraid of going under water so I told him that I'd be happy to baptize him in the bathtub whenever he feels he is ready.
You mentioned AWANA and I just want to say a little something about that. We used to have our oldest son in AWANA but we’ve chosen not to participate in those types of programs anymore. It occurred to me just how performance based those programs are at the year end “awards” ceremony last year. I saw kids beaming with pride and joy when they received awards for things like attendance, scripture memorization, and participation. I also saw the disappointed looks on other kids’ faces (including my son) when they didn’t receive those prizes and had to stand there in front of a hundred people while their peers received them. We came in towards the end of the year so my son didn’t rack up enough points be awarded. It was a very disturbing moment for me. The last thing I want from a program that is supposed to introduce the Kingdom to my child is for him to feel left out of that kingdom because he didn’t perform well enough. I realize that many people have their kids in programs like that and find that they are very effective in getting kids to memorize scripture and such. And I know that the intentions behind those programs are good. But at the same time, the focus on points and awards can quickly trump the focus on a personal relationship with the Lover of their souls. That’s just my opinion on that, for what it’s worth.
Anyway, I don’t know if any of that helps you or not, but I appreciate you opening the topic for discussion. And I appreciate your heart for your son.
Lord bless.
I also have a 5 year old (and a 2 year old) and have often pondered these very things myself. The conclusion I have personally come to is this…I’m not going to press the issue or rush it in any way.
I once saw this as a major item on my spiritual “to do” list. However, I know that God loves my kids infinitely more than I do and I’d rather not risk reducing that relationship to an impersonal transaction to make myself feel better. I regularly ask the Lord to break in on their lives and show His love to them in a very personal way.
Most of us desperately want to see our kids become true Christians and I think our tendency is to press it upon them before they really understand any of it. Children are very impressionable and many times do things only to please us or conform to their perceived external expectations. My gut feeling is that more often than not, kids that get “saved” are merely choosing between “good place” and “bad place” or are just giving mental assent for the approval of others (nothing more than peer pressure from parents, grand-parents, etc.). I think this can (and often does) lead to a false sense of security. By telling them to “accept Jesus” or get baptized before they really understand their own need for a Savior, I think we can too easily rob them of the necessary crisis with God that each sinner needs to experience before they realize their need for repentance. Our natural tendency is to want to spare our children of that painful (yet life giving) experience and go straight to getting them to “seal the deal”. But Jesus said,
Luke 18:16
"Let the little children come to Me”
NKJV
I tend to think that, like any other relationship they develop, kids come to know the Lord gradually over time by various encounters they have with Him. Hopefully, at some point in the development of that relationship, they come to know Him personally and recognize just how much they need Him, love Him, and want Him as their Lord. I see this developing in my own son. He’ll pray spontaneously, recognize answered prayers (even occasional healings), experience the joy of giving and serving others, etc. These are things I could never even hope to make him understand by a mere verbal presentation of the gospel.
My approach now is that I just want to be the kind of father to them as God is to me and lead by example. I want to allow God room to reach them through His own means in their own hearts. I don’t force bible reading on my son (although it is part of his home school curriculum), yet my son will often bring me his bible to read to him when he’s inspired to. I don’t make him pray, but encourage him to ask God for guidance and provision when the opportunity arises. I've talked to him a little about baptism and he really wants to do it. However, he's afraid of going under water so I told him that I'd be happy to baptize him in the bathtub whenever he feels he is ready.
You mentioned AWANA and I just want to say a little something about that. We used to have our oldest son in AWANA but we’ve chosen not to participate in those types of programs anymore. It occurred to me just how performance based those programs are at the year end “awards” ceremony last year. I saw kids beaming with pride and joy when they received awards for things like attendance, scripture memorization, and participation. I also saw the disappointed looks on other kids’ faces (including my son) when they didn’t receive those prizes and had to stand there in front of a hundred people while their peers received them. We came in towards the end of the year so my son didn’t rack up enough points be awarded. It was a very disturbing moment for me. The last thing I want from a program that is supposed to introduce the Kingdom to my child is for him to feel left out of that kingdom because he didn’t perform well enough. I realize that many people have their kids in programs like that and find that they are very effective in getting kids to memorize scripture and such. And I know that the intentions behind those programs are good. But at the same time, the focus on points and awards can quickly trump the focus on a personal relationship with the Lover of their souls. That’s just my opinion on that, for what it’s worth.
Anyway, I don’t know if any of that helps you or not, but I appreciate you opening the topic for discussion. And I appreciate your heart for your son.
Lord bless.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:31-32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:31-32
Thanks, Christopher, for your insight.
As far as AWANA goes, I can see how it could have some negatives, but I don't really have that concern with my son. He's competitive, but he rejoices for others who do well (something most of us could do better at), and doesn't get down if he comes home without a new "jewel". The main reason we have him there is for the scripture memorization. My wife tells me that 75% of the scripture she knows today is what she learned in AWANA. Plus she's a helper at the group, so she's got a good sense of how it's working for him. At this point he's mainly into the game time. But I've been impressed at what a sponge his little mind is. He already knows the 27 books of the NT. I asked five of my adult friends to name them, and only one of them could, and he needed a nudge when he got to the "T"s.
Anyhow, I agree with your overall notion about not pushing. I don't have concerns that he's somehow fallen from grace because he turned 5 before "accepting Christ". Plus, he still runs around naked...which means his eyes haven't been opened, right? Oh, wait...I do that, too...I know, TMI.
We have friends who told us their almost 3-year-old accepted Christ. I didn't want to burst their bubble, but my opinion is, if you don't remember it into adulthood, it didn't take. Of course, this is coming from someone who doesn't remember ever "converting", either. But I struggled with doubts of my salvation for years, I think partly due to that fact. And since my parents didn't make baptism an issue, I never stood "before men" and acknowledged Christ (until my 20s). I want my son to have a memory of becoming a Christ follower.Most of us desperately want to see our kids become true Christians and I think our tendency is to press it upon them before they really understand any of it.
As far as AWANA goes, I can see how it could have some negatives, but I don't really have that concern with my son. He's competitive, but he rejoices for others who do well (something most of us could do better at), and doesn't get down if he comes home without a new "jewel". The main reason we have him there is for the scripture memorization. My wife tells me that 75% of the scripture she knows today is what she learned in AWANA. Plus she's a helper at the group, so she's got a good sense of how it's working for him. At this point he's mainly into the game time. But I've been impressed at what a sponge his little mind is. He already knows the 27 books of the NT. I asked five of my adult friends to name them, and only one of them could, and he needed a nudge when he got to the "T"s.
Anyhow, I agree with your overall notion about not pushing. I don't have concerns that he's somehow fallen from grace because he turned 5 before "accepting Christ". Plus, he still runs around naked...which means his eyes haven't been opened, right? Oh, wait...I do that, too...I know, TMI.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
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_Les Wright
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:32 am
Hi Seth,
re: New Heavens and Earth (NH&E)
You know, your child may just understand more than you think. My wife and I were chatting about the NH&E the other day... you know, we don't know much about it, really. It certainly isn't the emphasis of all of scripture.
I guess I'm thinking, questions like that may show genuine interest. Of course, I suppose they could be just messing you up too tough.
I appreciate everybodys thoughts as I have a 2 year old and 4 month old myself.
Tx
In Him,
Les
re: New Heavens and Earth (NH&E)
You know, your child may just understand more than you think. My wife and I were chatting about the NH&E the other day... you know, we don't know much about it, really. It certainly isn't the emphasis of all of scripture.
I guess I'm thinking, questions like that may show genuine interest. Of course, I suppose they could be just messing you up too tough.
I appreciate everybodys thoughts as I have a 2 year old and 4 month old myself.
Tx
In Him,
Les
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Hi all,
Deu 6:6-7 "And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up."
Deu 11:18-21 "Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes. And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth."
I don't have any kids (but boy do I want some) but I think these verses teach some very important principles. To just live a solid walk with God and His teaching and just the reality of life with Him in every day living.
God bless,
Deu 6:6-7 "And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up."
Deu 11:18-21 "Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes. And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth."
I don't have any kids (but boy do I want some) but I think these verses teach some very important principles. To just live a solid walk with God and His teaching and just the reality of life with Him in every day living.
God bless,
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Derek
Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
Psalm 20:7
Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
Psalm 20:7