The Gospel message for Kids

[Guest]

hi paidion--

just so i understand you, are you stating that something else "happens" during baptism than getting wet?

i.e. you seem to suggest it is more than symbolic. but i am not sure if you mean that baptism is part of the "formula," of regeneration, or whether something mystical (for lack of a better word) happens during the baptism.

Yes, indeed. There was a pretty thorough discussion of baptism on the thread by that name in "Misc. theological topics." I brought the thread back, and so if you care to find out what I, and others, said about the matter and its relation to regeneration, just go to "Misc. theological topics" and read the thread through.

[Guest]

I've tried talking to my son (5 yrs) about the Gospel since he was really young, and I don't really see him comprehending it. Maybe I'm using the wrong words..

Oooh...one more hypothetical. If someone decided to follow Christ, but never said "The Sinners' Prayer", but instead chose to go straight for baptism (professing faith, of course), would he be saved?

A child of 5 cannot possibly understand the Gospel of Jesus to the degree that he can actually make the kind of decision and commitment Jesus calls for which leads to salvation. In fact I believe the whole concept of "Gospel" and "salvation" as exemplified by the "Sinner's prayer" (which is nowhere in the bible) leads to a false sense of security of one's salvation ans a different path than what Jesus calls us to. Many who never heard of "the sinner's prayer" are saved, and many who have uttered this prayer are not and never will be saved.

[Guest]

I agree with you, Wayne, that, "Many who never heard of "the sinner's prayer" are saved, and many who have uttered this prayer are not and never will be saved."

Actually, the term " sinner's prayer" is based on the prayer of the tax collector in the temple:

Luke 18:13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’

In this particular case, the tax collector also let go of his old way of life and submitted to God, and therefore went home justified.

It has been thought that if a person cries out to God for mercy in this way, it is all that is required. Some who have done that, have also, submitted themselves to Christ, simultaneously, and become disciples.
Many who have never been taught the necessity of discipleship, have nontheless become disciples.

I think that even a young child can enter the door of salvation, and may grow into deeper commitment as time goes on, just like the rest of us. Yes, some of them will fall back into the self-life, but so do many who commit themselves to Christ in later life.

Jesus referred to particular young children as "these little ones who believe in me."

[Guest]

Paidion- i am glad you mentioned Jesus' comments regarding little children, because when Seth first asked his question that came to my mind. But when Jesus said that a person must come as a little child, it is not necessarily the same thing as saying that the idea of "salvation" is a simple concept. but i agree that a young child can deal appropriately with what his understanding allows.

TK

[Guest]

Wayne,

I'm not sure I agree with you, but don't really think its worth arguing too much about it. Perhaps you are right? I do not have much (or any) experience trying to share the gospel with a 5 year old myself, but I do know some young children who sincerely love Jesus.

I think a 5 year old may be able to 'follow' and 'trust' and 'love' Jesus. I doubt any could understand the Bible like an adult or debate Steve Gregg, but I'm not sure that is necessary to be saved.

My 2 cents.
Les

[Guest]

What I'm wondering is this: are we trying to save those who are not lost?

I recall the story of a young boy who wanted to be baptized. The preacher sat down and talked to him about it. The boy acted disinterested in the discussion and after a few minutes asked the preacher "can I go play now?" All too often children want to be baptized for the wrong reason.

Do we believe in an age of accountability or not? There seems to be a thin line nowadays between believer's baptism and the pedobaptists. I read some time back that Annabaptists researched the age baptisms were commonly done among their fellowship; a few hundred years ago, as I recall, the usual age was in the 18 - 20 range and it has steadily decreased as the years have gone by. Now the "child evangelists" are trying to "convert" 5 year olds. They may grow up thinking "I've been baptized" and never see a need to become truly converted or even think they need to.

[Guest]

What I'm wondering is this: are we trying to save those who are not lost? ...Do we believe in an age of accountability or not? There seems to be a thin line nowadays between believer's baptism and the pedobaptists.

Excellent point. What I would fear is that we make a person think they are “saved” for having said a little prayer as a child without going on to live according to what they profess to believe.

I read some time back that Anabaptists researched the age baptisms were commonly done among their fellowship; a few hundred years ago, as I recall, the usual age was in the 18 - 20 range and it has steadily decreased as the years have gone by. Now the "child evangelists" are trying to "convert" 5 year olds. They may grow up thinking "I've been baptized" and never see a need to become truly converted or even think they need to.

The more heavily influenced by American Evangelicalism an Anabaptist group is, the younger the age of baptism is becoming. Among Old Order groups it is still in the late teens and early twenties. The decision to commit to a very disciplined life, a separate lifestyle, and a very tight, controlling commitment to a church certainly calls for a mature decision. The result is a sturdy faith-practice and a strong church.

This might suond odd to folks on this group, but I've had to discurage my children from "accepting Jesus" and seeking baptism, though it's common for children to do so in the church we attend. I desire to see my children decide to follow Jesus and I believe thay are innocent and under God's grace until they are mature enough to make a total commitment for life to Him.

[Guest]

Good points Homer and Wayne,

I guess I'm most interested in my kids seeing that God is real and how He influences our life then an understanding of the Gospel at this point.

I realize that when my 2 year old exlaims 'Amen' at the end of a prayer, it is not really indicating any spirituality per se, but it is fun for now and I hope he will learn to trust Jesus in practical ways.

Les

[Guest]

Good points Homer and Wayne,

I guess I'm most interested in my kids seeing that God is real and how He influences our life then an understanding of the Gospel at this point.

I realize that when my 2 year old exlaims 'Amen' at the end of a prayer, it is not really indicating any spirituality per se, but it is fun for now and I hope he will learn to trust Jesus in practical ways.

The one real advantage we can give our children as the mature is to make our faith believable and position them emotionally and intellectually to be followers of Jesus and to see the real value we place in following Jesus.

My son has been taught what it means to follow Jesus and has developed a very sensitive conscience and willingness to endure the discomfort that comes from not fitting in because of our family's beliefs and practices. If he makes a commitment to Jesus in the next few years I do not expect a "crisis of faith" when he's in college or a twenty-something, as is so common, becasue he will have made a mature decision knowing what it means to believe and accept Jesus as Lord.

The practice of infant baptism led to the need for "confirmation" to make it real. Child evangelism inevitably leads young adults to a crisis of faith when they really have to decide if they really believe.

[Guest]

Wayne, are you saying children that are in their pre-teens or early teens are unable to make a consious decision to fallow christ or understand what it means to be a Christian? If so are you basing this idea on bilblical texts or your personal experiences?

Thank you,
Robin