God a respecter of persons?

[Guest]

Did Cornelius believe God before Peter arrived?

What I know is what Acts records.

As far as your exact question, I have to respond with the question, Did Cornelius believe what about God before Peter arrived? The message from the angel?

The text does not bear out the possibility (IMO) that Cornelius was regenerated before he was "saved". If he was, then you can be regenerated (born again) without knowing Christ. This would seem to be in contradiction to John 3:14-15. I guess you could argue that God can certainly do this solely by divine revelation (like the angel), but God seemed to refuse to do this, and instead had Peter come to speak.

Paul is asking whether Jews are better than Gentiles because of the advantages of circumcision and answering that question in the negative.

Yes I agree, but you didn't answer the other points I mentioned.

When Paul says there are none righteous does he mean no one on earth or could he mean that there isn't a specific group out there (like the Jews) who are automatically righteous by the simple fact that they call themselves Jews and brag about the law, etc.

Gentiles is a word for non-Jews. Jews and non-Jews is what it means.

Yes, but again you are avoiding the implications of your interpretation of this passage as I cited in my previous post.

John 6:44
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

But tell me, did Cornelius send for Peter because he had faith in the God who gave him a vision, or because he doubted that God?

-Turretinfan

He believed the message God gave him. Just as Nicodemus believed Jesus was a teacher sent by God. This still wasn't enough to "save" either of them.

Nicodemus said: "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."

Jesus response: "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God...Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’"

Did Nicodemus "believe" Jesus? Was that enough?

[Guest]

tartanarmy wrote:

Calvinists fear Him, as a consequence of the new birth (regeneration), which is "Joh 3:8 "The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice; but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone having been generated from the Spirit."


I've always puzzled over why Calvinist interpret this verse this way.

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes.”
So the wind has an effect on what it touches so that you can tell it, yet even though you can tell there is an effect, you can't understand what the effect is. These very things were said of/by Jesus (John 6:42, John 8:14 & 21)

The wind is the invisible moving of the Holy Spirit. Jesus is teaching the freedom of the Holy Spirit to blow where it wishes.

This means that God is sovereign and is free to “regenerate” as He pleases.

There is no room for man's “free will” in the equation.

Those born of the Spirit, are so, because the Holy Spirit has birthed them. This is crystal clear from what Jesus is teaching here.

Man is completely “passive” when God is blowing His Spirit wherever and on whomever He desires.

Now, the effect of that blowing is where “Man's will” enters into the equation.
As a result of this “blowing” upon them, man embraces Christ and His gospel.

1/ The Spirit blows freely wherever He desires to. Joh 3:8

2/ The recipient blown upon is passive. Eph 2:1, Rom. 8:7, Joh 3:6, Rom. 8:18
3/ The effect is regeneration leading (irresistibly) to action from man. James 1:18, Gal 1:16,

Psa 110:3 Your people shall be willing in the day of Your power!
i.e., irresistibly drawn to Him.
Joh 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

4/ Man having been given a new heart, responds in faith and repentance as an act of his own will.
1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for possession, so that you might speak of the praises of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

5/ God is glorified, man is humbled.
Isa 2:10 Enter into the rock and hide in the dust for fear of Jehovah, and for the glory of His majesty.

6/ Salvation comes by the free grace of God alone.
Jonah 2 (King James Version) 9 But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD. Eph 2:8-9 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,
not of works, lest anyone should boast.

7/ Anything less than this is Synergism, and leaves room for the boasting of the man.
1Co 4:7 For who makes you to differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?

Remember this. Jesus said to Nicodemas, that “Unless a man is born again”, and I just explained what that is above with other scriptures backing it up.
Then says, “He cannot see the Kingdom of God”.

Arminians teach that one "sees" by believing, yet scripture teaches that one "believes" by seeing!
The exact opposite.

Act 26:18 in order to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light, and from the authority of Satan to God, so that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

God opens our eyes, because man by nature is blind, dead and lost. He has no ability to respond in and of himself.

Scripture affirms this many times.
One of the clearest passages is where it is explicitly stated that man “cannot” come God in and of himself.

Rom 8:7-8 “the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.”

Scripture is crystal clear here, no Calvinist spin.
Consider the following passage.

Joh 6:65 And He said, Because of this, I have told you that no one is able to come to Me except it is given to him from My Father.

What is there not to get regarding this passage?

This is all in keeping with the Bibles teaching regarding man before He is born again.

1Co 2:14 But a natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he is not able to know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Please deal with these things, and realise that your ideas about “free will” are not biblical.

Free will is a philosophy of man, and is Nowhere taught in scripture.

Man has a will, YES absolutely.
Calvinists are often accused of believing man has not a will. It is not true and destroys the discussion at that point.

We affirm with the scriptures, that Man’s will is in “bondage” to his sinful nature, hence not free!

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever practices sin is the slave of sin.

See also- Genesis 6:5, Genesis 8:21, Ecclesiastes 7:20, Isaiah 64:6, Mark 7:21-23, John 3:19, I Corinthians 2:14 - Ephesians 4:17-19, Ephesians 5:8, Romans 8:7-8 , Ps 130:3, Ps 143:2, Proverbs 20:9, Ecclesiastes 7:20, Isaiah 64:6, James 3:2-8, 1 John 1:8-10, Romans 1:18-25, Romans 3:9-12.

Bondage and freedom are opposites.

Rom 5:6 For we yet being without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Arminians need to cast off their “free will” grid, that reads this philosophical theory of man into the scriptures.

It is not the Calvinist that brings in these speculations of man to the text of scripture, but Arminians!

Read those passages again without your “free will” glasses on.
Put on glasses that have man with a will “in bondage to sin” instead, and you will read scripture rightly.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

So (like Jesus) everyone born of the Spirit does things that effect the world but people in the world (while noticing you are doing something) do not know where you come from or where you are going because you are born of the Spirit and they are not.

With all due respect. The passage is not talking about “us” and where we are “going” nor what the world is thinking about Christians.

It is addressing the “freedom” of God, and the “freedom” of the Spirit, which produces “effects”.
Our believing is the “effect”, of the Spirit blowing upon “us”.
Regeneration precedes faith.

Lose the “free will” glasses and all will make sense.

Jesus in John 3 is God centred, and that is one of the main reasons that Calvinism is “Theocentric” and Arminianism is “anthropocentric”.

Those not regenerated cannot see that you are working for/in the kingdom of God

Is that what Jesus is saying there? Your tradition of “free” will is blinding you to read into scripture things which are not there.

tartanarmy wrote:

Arminians teach regeneration consequent to faith/fear/seeking/repenting etc.
That equates to God showing partiality to those who exercise faith/fear/seeking/repenting etc.


Yes, just as John 3 says:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

Eternal life (born again/regeneration) comes to those who believe first, just as one had to look on the serpent Moses lifted up first before they were saved from death.

No it does not. Once again your tradition of “free” will is reading things that are not there.
Verse 14 is teaching that Christ’s atonement saves all the believers. The passage does not address how the Spirit works in this regard, but does so in the previous verses, and does so with clarity.

Go back and re-read John 3 without “free” will glasses on. It is all in perfect harmony and unity.

What did you do when you were born into this world? Nothing, you were passive!
Same with being “born again”. Man is passive.

What did you do immediately after your birth? You cried and were welcomed into your new world!
Same with being “born again”. You cried out to God in repentance and faith, showing that you are a “new” creation, who has passed from death to life!

It all fits perfectly with scripture, but you need to take off the “free” will glasses in order to even begin to see it.

Unless a man is born again, He “CANNOT” even “see” the Kingdom of God, let alone enter it”.

What does Jesus say in verse 6?

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
What is He saying here?

Consider a passage I quoted earlier.

Rom 8:7-8 “the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.”

Another translation reads.

King James Version (KJV) 8:6-8

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Flesh = Unregenerate = flesh gives birth to flesh = cannot please God = Not able to please God

Spirit = Regenerate = Holy Spirit births = God’s free desire = The Spirit blows wherever He desires.

Rom 9:15 For He said to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

Calvinists do not know why God chose them, it certainly was not anything to do with us, whether that be faith/fear/seeking/repenting etc.


Then God is a respecter of persons.

Not in the sense that He chooses us because of “anything” in us.

But, if He chooses “us” because we exercised our so called “free” will then we have certainly been shown partiality based upon what we have done.

No, salvation is completely by free grace, not free will, which does not exist.
The only Free will in the universe is God’s.

James 1:18 (King James Version)

Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

New International Version (NIV)

He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

I have not contorted the many scriptures I cited in any way, shape or form as I am sure at least one poster here shall say.

Mark

[Guest]

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

[Guest]

Regeneration precedes Faith...

[Guest]

Hogwash!

The Bible does not teach the born again before faith heresy.

The Bible clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit has come to CONVICT the world of sin righteousness and judgment. Not regenerate people so they can believe. Men are DESIGNED TO BELEIVE and can do so any time they wish to. Deal with it.

Let's look at some of the Calvinistic halluncinations:

The wind is the invisible moving of the Holy Spirit. Jesus is teaching the freedom of the Holy Spirit to blow where it wishes.

This means that God is sovereign and is free to “regenerate” as He pleases.

There is no room for man's “free will” in the equation.

Lies, plain and simple. John 3:1-8 no more teaches these Calvinistic interlopations than it teaches baptismal regeneration, like the Campbellites claim to "see" in this passage. At least there IS a reference to water here, unlike ANY reference to a denial of free-will, or the baloney "Sovereignty of the Spirit to regenerate whoever He wants" sandwich.

Our Lord's point is that the effect of the new birth is seen just like the effect of wind is seen, though we do not see the wind, or the new birth happen, its results are evident. The wind is analogous to the New Birth, not the Holy Spirit and how He operates.

The most ironic thing about this is that Christ says that the wind blows where it WILLS. Even the wind has a will! Yet tart says he sees here a denial of free-will. So human beings have no will, but the wind does??? Did Christ literally mean the wind had a will, or did he simply use an expression that was obviously figurative??? Let's start a doctrine about the free-will of the wind!!!

Also the term "free-will" is a redundancy. The term will itself means FREE. To say one has a will is to say FREE-WILL, for that is the meaning of the term. Men have wills--hence by the very definition of things, they are free to choose either way, and not even sin can stop them from believing the Gospel and surrendering to God, after the convicting work of the Holy Spirit has been upon them.

I like tart's appeal to Col. 2:13, which DOES NOT SAY regeneration precedes faith. He is hallucinating again. All Paul is doing is RECOUNTING what God has done for us THROUGH CHRIST so the Colossian believers will not go back under law, circumcision, sabbath-observations, and not stick to the head, in whom all the fulness of the Godhead resides bodily. We are to continue in Him. Another Calvinistic, out of context appeal.

As I have time, I can refute the rest of the erroneous appeals to the other Scriptures, out of context, as usual, though Arminians have answered all these things 1000 times before. What is frustrating is Calvinists continue to assert their hackneyed old cliches as if there are no answers. Why not deal with the Arminian rebuttals to these appeals, that have been around for hundreds of years? This gets old and becomes a waste of time with these people. Like I said, they are not here to "learn" anything WITH us, like they claim. They are here PRETENDING that is their posture. They are here to CONVERT us to their man-made errors.

[Guest]

Had a quick glance.
Nope.
No interaction there whatsoever, just snide assertions as usual.
Smoke and mirrors.

Mark

Why do I bother spending the time to write all of that?
Thats right, for others.

[Guest]

There are many references in the New Testamant concering God's rewarding the righteousness. If all of man's righteousness is "as filthy rags" ---- worthless, why would God reward it?

[Guest]

And what is the Calvinist response when his wresting of John 3:1-8 is proven to be false?

Had a quick glance.
Nope.
No interaction there whatsoever, just snide assertions as usual.
Smoke and mirrors

Tart is in denial.

Paidon, the Lord does promise rewards to the righteous, for there is virtue in doing good, but salvation is not of works, but of grace. It is not a debt God owes us, but a free-gift offered to all mankind, who can choose life or death, blessings or cursing. Christ did the work, we receive the benefit.

[Guest]

Paidon, the Lord does promise rewards to the righteous, for there is virtue in doing good, but salvation is not of works, but of grace. It is not a debt God owes us, but a free-gift offered to all mankind, who can choose life or death, blessings or cursing. Christ did the work, we receive the benefit.

I don't entirely agree with you, Sola. But even if you are 100% correct, my objection to Calvinism is still valid. For according to that philosophy, we are totally depraved because of the fall, and all of our good works are as filthy rags to God. So why would He reward them?

[Guest]

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

Dead in sins means the penalty of sin is death, we all face that. However, that speaks nothing to the issue of the ability to respond to the Gospel.

Let's see how consistent you are with this.

Romans 6: 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Ok, so now that you are Calvinist Christian, you never sin anymore, correct? You cannot, because now you are DEAD TO SIN! If "dead in your sins" means an inability to do anything righteous ever, then being dead to sin means what Paul said:

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?...7 For he who has died has been freed from sin

Regeneration precedes Faith...

If I type faith precedes regeneration really big, does that make it true?

Read Romans 4, it explains what Abraham did (believe) and what he did not do (work). This is man's "will" in full swing. Abraham believed God, then God justified him. Man responds to God, God then responds with blessing. And according to Paul, faith is not a work. It can't be called meritorious in any way. This chapter alone defeats Calvinistic presuppositions about what man can or cannot do. And so does Jesus:

Luke 14:25 Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, 26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it— 29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. 33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

So, when people hear the Gospel, do you believe what Jesus said, that they should first consider what is being asked of their life, before they commit? Just in case someone does commit and is not able to "finish"? What kind of Christian is one who starts but is not able to finish? How were they able to start in the first place if they did not understand any of it (without being born again first)?