Tartanarmy,
Your most recent, lengthy post was just deleted by me, according to my warnings found at http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=1813 . Your post consisted of nothing but long cut-and-paste pieces, mixed with your unsubstantiated use of the word "heretic" directed toward other board members. There was no substance to your post, other than the lengthy pasted sections. You violated both guidelines presented by me at this post: http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=1813 . I assume 1) you had not seen it, or 2) you had forgotten it, or 3) you are simply clueless as to what you are doing in your posts.
If I have to delete many such posts from any one user, a ban from the forum will be the only recourse open to me. Please make your own points in your own words, sans the verbal abuse.
All to the glory of God!
Lewis-
I appreciate your willingness to look into the texts that we are discussing. I will be forward in saying that I believe in the total depravity of man. I also believe in unconditional election (I clearly apply these convictions to Eli's sons and every sinner past, present, and future). So no need to "beat around the bush". I am sure you will notice that if you look over my posts you will find much Scripture and some of my favorite preachers, writers, and theologians. I sincerely hope that people here (and the church in general) will run to the Scripture and agonize over it.
I am going to take a different approach in this post. My time on this site will be much less if any at all as summer ( for those of us in the northern hemisphere) moves along. I start a summer college course on Monday that is reading intensive. Shortly after that, I will go back to teaching at the Christian children's home where I work.
A little bit about myself: I was born into a family that was involved with a cult. This particular cult was elitist, legalistic, and absolutely butchered Scripture. I never heard the gospel growing up. I hardly ever heard the name of Jesus even mentioned.
At the age of 17 I informed my parents that I was no longer interested. For a time, I ran from all religion and looked elsewhere for meaning. Praise God that He pursued me and kept me alive (I easily could have died 4 or 5 times). God totally broke me. I didn't break myself. God totally broke me.
I started going to church again amongst non-Calvinists (it seems many here don't like to refer to themselves as Arminians. I prefer the term Reformed over Calvinist.). My wife and I worked at a couple of summer camps and I remember having a burning desire for the word of God. I started asking the people around me to pray that the word of God would be brought to life for me. Many non-Calvinists were praying with me that this would take place.
I believe God providentially brought people into my life in accordance with His means (many praying and His plan all along) to open up for me the doctrines of grace in Scripture. I embrace the doctrines of grace. I cherish my sovereign Lord. He is my potter and I am His clay. He can do with me whatever He pleases.
Now back to Eli for a bit. I am sure that Eli must have prayed fervently over his sons. Who in their right mind wouldn't want their children to be known by God. But in the end:
"it was the will of the Lord to put them to death." I deserve what Eli's boys got. So does everyone else.
Someone might say, "Have you really thought about what your position means?" I say yes. Every single day! I have three beautiful little girls. One is 6, another 4, and the youngest is about to turn 2. Every day is another day to surrender them to the Lord. They are first and foremost His. My job is to teach them from the Bible (though I have a little trouble keeping the 2 year old still
). I want them to know God's word, be totally dependent on the sovereign Lord of the universe, and become independent of my wife and I. In the end, the girls are His. I leave them to the Potter.
I have great hope and eager expectations when I evangelize. The Lord of the harvest will draw His elect to Himself and not one of them will be lost. God knows those who are His. I don't, but His word does not return void and I am thrilled to share it.
May God lavish your richly with His grace,
Haas
I appreciate your willingness to look into the texts that we are discussing. I will be forward in saying that I believe in the total depravity of man. I also believe in unconditional election (I clearly apply these convictions to Eli's sons and every sinner past, present, and future). So no need to "beat around the bush". I am sure you will notice that if you look over my posts you will find much Scripture and some of my favorite preachers, writers, and theologians. I sincerely hope that people here (and the church in general) will run to the Scripture and agonize over it.
I am going to take a different approach in this post. My time on this site will be much less if any at all as summer ( for those of us in the northern hemisphere) moves along. I start a summer college course on Monday that is reading intensive. Shortly after that, I will go back to teaching at the Christian children's home where I work.
A little bit about myself: I was born into a family that was involved with a cult. This particular cult was elitist, legalistic, and absolutely butchered Scripture. I never heard the gospel growing up. I hardly ever heard the name of Jesus even mentioned.
At the age of 17 I informed my parents that I was no longer interested. For a time, I ran from all religion and looked elsewhere for meaning. Praise God that He pursued me and kept me alive (I easily could have died 4 or 5 times). God totally broke me. I didn't break myself. God totally broke me.
I started going to church again amongst non-Calvinists (it seems many here don't like to refer to themselves as Arminians. I prefer the term Reformed over Calvinist.). My wife and I worked at a couple of summer camps and I remember having a burning desire for the word of God. I started asking the people around me to pray that the word of God would be brought to life for me. Many non-Calvinists were praying with me that this would take place.
I believe God providentially brought people into my life in accordance with His means (many praying and His plan all along) to open up for me the doctrines of grace in Scripture. I embrace the doctrines of grace. I cherish my sovereign Lord. He is my potter and I am His clay. He can do with me whatever He pleases.
Now back to Eli for a bit. I am sure that Eli must have prayed fervently over his sons. Who in their right mind wouldn't want their children to be known by God. But in the end:
"it was the will of the Lord to put them to death." I deserve what Eli's boys got. So does everyone else.
Someone might say, "Have you really thought about what your position means?" I say yes. Every single day! I have three beautiful little girls. One is 6, another 4, and the youngest is about to turn 2. Every day is another day to surrender them to the Lord. They are first and foremost His. My job is to teach them from the Bible (though I have a little trouble keeping the 2 year old still
). I want them to know God's word, be totally dependent on the sovereign Lord of the universe, and become independent of my wife and I. In the end, the girls are His. I leave them to the Potter.I have great hope and eager expectations when I evangelize. The Lord of the harvest will draw His elect to Himself and not one of them will be lost. God knows those who are His. I don't, but His word does not return void and I am thrilled to share it.
May God lavish your richly with His grace,
Haas
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Steve wrote:
Steve,
Does this standard also work for SE and his many (and I mean many) copy and paste posts from open theists? What about Robin's hack job paste on John Calvin?
In the end Steve, I affirm this: You are in charge of this site and I humbly submit to your God given authority to monitor this site. May you be inspired by Him to do so consistently.
Blessings in Christ,
Haas
Tartan- I thought that your post was fine. Maybe posting the links would be okay.Tartanarmy,
Your most recent, lengthy post was just deleted by me, according to my warnings found at http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=1813 . Your post consisted of nothing but long cut-and-paste pieces, mixed with your unsubstantiated use of the word "heretic" directed toward other board members. There was no substance to your post, other than the lengthy pasted sections. You violated both guidelines presented by me at this post: http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=1813 . I assume 1) you had not seen it, or 2) you had forgotten it, or 3) you are simply clueless as to what you are doing in your posts.
If I have to delete many such posts from any one user, a ban from the forum will be the only recourse open to me. Please make your own points in your own words, sans the verbal abuse.
Steve,
Does this standard also work for SE and his many (and I mean many) copy and paste posts from open theists? What about Robin's hack job paste on John Calvin?
In the end Steve, I affirm this: You are in charge of this site and I humbly submit to your God given authority to monitor this site. May you be inspired by Him to do so consistently.
Blessings in Christ,
Haas
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
haas,
there is cutting and pasting and then there is CUTTING AND PASTING.
i think we all can tell the difference. obviously a reasonable length cut and paste to buttress a point would seem to be okay. but miles and miles of cutting and pasting is ridiculous. i am sure Steve will be even-handed about this.
a while back we had a poster who would come on here, post huge cut and paste jobs supporting his view (which happened to be calvinism) but he would never stick around to debate the things he posted. so we essentially read huge amounts of material (mostly extremely boring) for nothing.
i must say that at least you guys stick around to argue, which is great.
But you know what I really wish? i wish that you guys would interact on some of the other non-calvinistic threads. i'd really like to see your input there once in a while, because i know you would have some good things to contribute.
(sorry for saying "you guys." we're all brothers-- but you know what i mean
TK
there is cutting and pasting and then there is CUTTING AND PASTING.
i think we all can tell the difference. obviously a reasonable length cut and paste to buttress a point would seem to be okay. but miles and miles of cutting and pasting is ridiculous. i am sure Steve will be even-handed about this.
a while back we had a poster who would come on here, post huge cut and paste jobs supporting his view (which happened to be calvinism) but he would never stick around to debate the things he posted. so we essentially read huge amounts of material (mostly extremely boring) for nothing.
i must say that at least you guys stick around to argue, which is great.
But you know what I really wish? i wish that you guys would interact on some of the other non-calvinistic threads. i'd really like to see your input there once in a while, because i know you would have some good things to contribute.
(sorry for saying "you guys." we're all brothers-- but you know what i mean
TK
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)
The rule applies to all. Robin's pasting of the story of Michael Servetus was done before I posted my instructions. I have not seen any of SE's posts since I issued the warning. I am not deleting posts that were posted previously, whether Calvinist or otherwise.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
In Jesus,
Steve
Steve
-
_tartanarmy
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:26 pm
- Location: Australia
Well, this is just not acceptable to me.
I hardly ever do "paste jobs" and that post you deleted was simply reprehensible.
I am done posting here, especially when it gets to the being "edited" stage.
What I posted there was factual and reasonable as Haas indicated.
You Mr Gregg have stepped over the mark and have done so in a way that mocks open dialogue.
I find it amazing that Open Theism is tolerated and cut and pastes seem fine, but when Open Dialogue is ensued, the edit mentality comes to the fore.
But as Haas has said, it is your board and you can do what you wish with it, but I assure you I have spoken openly and honestly here at your board, and it is my views that are rejected and now being edited/deleted, rather than the heresy of Open Theism.
Mark
I hardly ever do "paste jobs" and that post you deleted was simply reprehensible.
I am done posting here, especially when it gets to the being "edited" stage.
What I posted there was factual and reasonable as Haas indicated.
You Mr Gregg have stepped over the mark and have done so in a way that mocks open dialogue.
I find it amazing that Open Theism is tolerated and cut and pastes seem fine, but when Open Dialogue is ensued, the edit mentality comes to the fore.
But as Haas has said, it is your board and you can do what you wish with it, but I assure you I have spoken openly and honestly here at your board, and it is my views that are rejected and now being edited/deleted, rather than the heresy of Open Theism.
Mark
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
-
_tartanarmy
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:26 pm
- Location: Australia
Well, since it is aimed my way, and yet I claim to have honestly and passionately interacted here with Godly intentions and for the good of Christians, I cannot continue to do so when my posts are edited or deleted as Steve has decided to do.
There was nothing inaccurate in the post that was deleted. (Post contained well respected contemporary and well known Theologians who are calling Open Theology Heresy!)
I was accused of being inflammatory and offending person(s), when in fact I have only called out one person at this board of teaching heresy, and when challenged to prove the charge, I was attempting to do so, and as I was quoting evidence to back it up, (which Steve has called, “Your post consisted of nothing but long cut-and-paste pieces, mixed with your unsubstantiated use of the word "heretic" directed toward other board members.)
I can no longer post with that type of editing and limit placed upon so called “open” discussion and or providing a response to a challenge given to me.
Make no mistake about it. I posted at least 30 or so very well known Theologians who would agree with my charge of Heresy, and it concerns me that Steve Gregg would censor their views under the cover of my post being a cut and paste job.
It is almost cultic to throw out so much good Christian scholarship. That was the bulk of the post that was deleted.
How can I prove my charges without quoting from others within the Church? Men studied in this area. Men who have written books upon Open Theism as heresy, debated the subject etc.
If I only used my own opinion, how far does that get me here?, and if I give the opinion of others, who Pastor Churches, study these movements etc I am deleted without warning? How can I win?
Absolutely absurd. What is wrong with this picture?
The rest of you should admonish Mr Gregg for these actions. Disagree with me for sure, ask me to substantiate my assertions by all means, but do not delete me when I do exactly what I am being asked to provide!
Mark
There was nothing inaccurate in the post that was deleted. (Post contained well respected contemporary and well known Theologians who are calling Open Theology Heresy!)
I was accused of being inflammatory and offending person(s), when in fact I have only called out one person at this board of teaching heresy, and when challenged to prove the charge, I was attempting to do so, and as I was quoting evidence to back it up, (which Steve has called, “Your post consisted of nothing but long cut-and-paste pieces, mixed with your unsubstantiated use of the word "heretic" directed toward other board members.)
I can no longer post with that type of editing and limit placed upon so called “open” discussion and or providing a response to a challenge given to me.
Make no mistake about it. I posted at least 30 or so very well known Theologians who would agree with my charge of Heresy, and it concerns me that Steve Gregg would censor their views under the cover of my post being a cut and paste job.
It is almost cultic to throw out so much good Christian scholarship. That was the bulk of the post that was deleted.
How can I prove my charges without quoting from others within the Church? Men studied in this area. Men who have written books upon Open Theism as heresy, debated the subject etc.
If I only used my own opinion, how far does that get me here?, and if I give the opinion of others, who Pastor Churches, study these movements etc I am deleted without warning? How can I win?
Absolutely absurd. What is wrong with this picture?
The rest of you should admonish Mr Gregg for these actions. Disagree with me for sure, ask me to substantiate my assertions by all means, but do not delete me when I do exactly what I am being asked to provide!
Mark
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"I am done posting here, especially when it gets to the being 'edited' stage."
"I can no longer post with that type of editing and limit placed upon so called “open” discussion and or providing a response to a challenge given to me."
We shall see.
"I can no longer post with that type of editing and limit placed upon so called “open” discussion and or providing a response to a challenge given to me."
We shall see.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
In Jesus,
Steve
Steve
Back to the original topic. The glory of God. I assume most people here read the Bible and understand that it is the inspired Word of God (Isaiah 55:10-11, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, 2 Peter 1:16-21).
Psalm 79:9
9 Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of your name; deliver us, and atone for our sins, for your name's sake!
Psalm 115:1 Not to us, O LORD, not to us, but to your name give glory,
for the sake of your steadfast love and your faithfulness!
2 Why should the nations say,
“Where is their God?”
3 Our God is in the heavens;
he does all that he pleases.
I Chronicles 29:10-13
10 Therefore David blessed the LORD in the presence of all the assembly. And David said: “Blessed are you, O LORD, the God of Israel our father, forever and ever. 11 Yours, O LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O LORD, and you are exalted as head above all. 12 Both riches and honor come from you, and you rule over all. In your hand are power and might, and in your hand it is to make great and to give strength to all. 13 And now we thank you, our God, and praise your glorious name.
Jude 1:24-25
24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, 25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
bold emphasis mine
Blessings and rest in Christ,
Haas
Psalm 79:9
9 Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of your name; deliver us, and atone for our sins, for your name's sake!
Psalm 115:1 Not to us, O LORD, not to us, but to your name give glory,
for the sake of your steadfast love and your faithfulness!
2 Why should the nations say,
“Where is their God?”
3 Our God is in the heavens;
he does all that he pleases.
I Chronicles 29:10-13
10 Therefore David blessed the LORD in the presence of all the assembly. And David said: “Blessed are you, O LORD, the God of Israel our father, forever and ever. 11 Yours, O LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O LORD, and you are exalted as head above all. 12 Both riches and honor come from you, and you rule over all. In your hand are power and might, and in your hand it is to make great and to give strength to all. 13 And now we thank you, our God, and praise your glorious name.
Jude 1:24-25
24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, 25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
bold emphasis mine
Blessings and rest in Christ,
Haas
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason: