"monergism" and "synergism"

Post by **_Homer** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:04 pm

Some thoughts on monergism and synergism "from the woodpile".

I've been cutting, splitting, and stacking firewood a lot lately. We much prefer it for heat. I am very glad God, in his providence, has provided all the wood I need. A kind farmer, a Christian man, gives me the wood; I don't have to drive far and I help him clear land. Got me to thinking about this monergism/synergism thing. Here is how I see it:

1. Synergist gets firewood the way I do. Kind man gives me the firewood. Through much labor and sweat, I cut, load, haul, unload, split, and stack the wood. Kind of a metaphor for the Catholic religion, seems to me.

2. Monergist way of getting firewood: Farmer knocks on my door and tells me he has a truckload of firewood for me. I ask him what its for. I don't know a piece of firewood from a brick. He says you burn it to keep warm. I ask him what "warm" means. He says that's when you aren't cold. I tell him I'm not cold, whatever that is. Farmer bashes me on the head with a big piece of oak. Suddenly I understand all about firewood and happily accept his offer. A metaphor for Calvinism, don't you think?

3. My late friend Delmar's way: Delmar was a retired farmer, about thirty years older than me. When he heard I was recuperating from surgery, Delmar's thoughts didn't run along the lines of flowers and get well cards. He knew exactly what I needed. Laying on the couch, I looked out the back window and saw Delmar back his truck into our yard and dump a load of firewood. He wasn't asked, but he knew my need. I gladly accepted the gift, burned the wood and kept warm. This is a metaphor for those of us who are simply Christians; who could hardly care less about what the monergists think about us. We have someone who gives, and keeps on giving us all the fire we can use.

Post by **_Rick_C** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:48 pm

Good post, Homer

You wrote:1. Synergist gets firewood the way I do. Kind man gives me the firewood. Through much labor and sweat, I cut, load, haul, unload, split, and stack the wood. Kind of a metaphor for the Catholic religion, seems to me.

Yes, Catholics are synergists (in that they require faith + works in order to go to heaven upon death...not that Protestants necessarily disagree with the need for works, though). I don't know how Catholics view initial-salvation (which is what we are (really) talking about). The "work(?)" of being baptised, the duty of the parents to have them, and the priest doing it....

You also wrote:2. Monergist way of getting firewood: Farmer knocks on my door and tells me he has a truckload of firewood for me. I ask him what its for. I don't know a piece of firewood from a brick. He says you burn it to keep warm. I ask him what "warm" means. He says that's when you aren't cold. I tell him I'm not cold, whatever that is. Farmer bashes me on the head with a big piece of oak. Suddenly I understand all about firewood and happily accept his offer. A metaphor for Calvinism, don't you think?

"But you had to work to buy the land for him to put it on!"

And, anyways...Unfortunately, this seems accurate in how many Calvinists come across, anyway....

Lastly, you wrote:3. My late friend Delmar's way: Delmar was a retired farmer, about thirty years older than me. When he heard I was recuperating from surgery, Delmar's thoughts didn't run along the lines of flowers and get well cards. He knew exactly what I needed. Laying on the couch, I looked out the back window and saw Delmar back his truck into our yard and dump a load of firewood. He wasn't asked, but he knew my need. I gladly accepted the gift, burned the wood and kept warm. This is a metaphor for those of us who are simply Christians; who could hardly care less about what the monergists think about us. We have someone who gives, and keeps on giving us all the fire we can use.

Leaving the "monergists" out of it...think about the average Christian who may have never heard of it, or Calvinism, or Arminius, or much any other kind of theology or supra-dupra-OPRAH-Schmoprah-lapsarianism!

(BTW, Please see my last post on the "Hermeneutics" thread)....

One reason why I can't accept Calvinism (or Arminianism, for that matter) is that it isn't something an average person can understand.

To this day I wonder things like, re: all this stuff:
Oh, apparently I was "dead men can do nothing" when something that surely seemed like a "Holy Spirit" prompted me to go to Walmart and buy a Bible. For three weeks I read that Bible for at least 8 hours a day. But I was still a "dead man can do nothing?" I sensed the experience of being Born Again (most undeniably) after carefully considering everything I have ever believed in my whole life and actually had some definite measure of faith that both God existed and that Jesus was the Son of God. Apparently, this wasn't really "faith"....um, what was it then? "A dead man can't be drawn?" Maybe I was a special case....yeah, had to be that (????)

Good thing, imo, that we can be saved without having to dissect ourselves and God apart into teeny tiny sections!
Why, even a child can understand it!

See my post on the other thread...(P.S. I see Steve just posted there)....
Great Story about Delmar......Thanks, Homer

Post by **_Perry** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:55 am

Derek wrote:Well, Limited Atonement would be the doctrine that Christ died (made atonement) only for the elect, (as opposed to all men everywhere).

How's this then?
Limted Atonement... Christ's sacrifice only applies to the favorites God picks.

Perry

Post by **_Derek** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:56 pm

Perry wrote:
Derek wrote:Well, Limited Atonement would be the doctrine that Christ died (made atonement) only for the elect, (as opposed to all men everywhere).
How's this then?
Limted Atonement... Christ's sacrifice only applies to the favorites God picks.

Perry

Better. God bless!

Post by **__id_1887** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:01 pm

Homer wrote:

3. My late friend Delmar's way: Delmar was a retired farmer, about thirty years older than me. When he heard I was recuperating from surgery, Delmar's thoughts didn't run along the lines of flowers and get well cards. He knew exactly what I needed. Laying on the couch, I looked out the back window and saw Delmar back his truck into our yard and dump a load of firewood. He wasn't asked, but he knew my need. I gladly accepted the gift, burned the wood and kept warm. This is a metaphor for those of us who are simply Christians; who could hardly care less about what the monergists think about us. We have someone who gives, and keeps on giving us all the fire we can use.

I am glad to hear that Delmar is a Christian because he sounds just like many of the mormons that live in my town.

Rest in Christ,

Haas

Post by **_tartanarmy** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:14 am

Same here. I know plenty of Non Christians who would do the same thing.

Mark

Post by **_Steve** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:14 am

Haas and Mark,

I certainly hope you got Homer's point better than your two posts would suggest. Delmar was a Christian, but Homer's point would have been the same if he were a kindly atheist. Did you understand Homer's point?

Post by **__id_1679** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:57 am

Fellas

A good piece on regeneration by JI Packer:http://mb-soft.com/believe/txs/regenera.htm

Peace,
Bob

Post by **__id_1887** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:55 am

Steve wrote:

Haas and Mark,

I certainly hope you got Homer's point better than your two posts would suggest. Delmar was a Christian, but Homer's point would have been the same if he were a kindly atheist. Did you understand Homer's point?

Homer wrote:

This is a metaphor for those of us who are simply Christians.

This was all written in the context of a synergism vs. monergism thread. I don't think it is a metaphor for those who are just simply Christians, Mormons, and kindly atheists (all lumped together).

Now if I take what Homer wrote outside of the context of this thread......Praise God that he saves and equips Christians for "good works that He prepared for us in advance to walk in." Praise God that "by their fruit they will be known."

I have to look no further than my own heart. The radical transformation that God has done (and is continuing to do) is astonishing. It was real easy for me to hang with the secular humanists before God grabbed a hold of me. I was really good at consuming and enjoying. Even the people that I thought I "loved" were just another thing to consume and enjoy.

Any compassion or love or sacrifice that is now a part of my life is 100% by the grace of God.

If my Mormon neighbor comes over and chops my wood for me. I will praise God! But I won't consider him a Christian.

In Christ,

Haas

Post by **_Steve** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:18 pm

Haas,

Then I was correct in thinking you missed Homer's point. This often happens when one is more concerned with disproving a man's position (for whatever reason) than in hearing his comments.

The Man who could have been a Mormon or an Atheist (but who happened to be a Christian) was not the person illustrating the Christian's position. In the illustration, that man simply represented God, as a gracious benefactor. The man's belief system was irrelevant to the point.

Since the thread IS about monergism and synergism, the focus was upon the role of the man (Homer) who received the generous contribution. You somehow missed this obvious fact, as, it would appear, Mark did also.

You are less likely to make such embarrassing mistakes if you visit us with the same agenda that most of us have here, which has nothing to do with proving our positions, but to dialogue (which includes listening) with other brethren who are looking only for the truth. When you come with the assumption that whatever you believe is, de facto, the truth, and are not willing to be corrected by others, you are in poor condition to learn--or even to hear--anything.