A different God?

[Guest]

I continue to read about and hear others who say that the reason Open Theism is "heresy" is because Open Theists worship a different God. They "do away" with God's omniscience which is a central aspect of who He is. Therefore, they cannot be Christians because they worship a different God (one who is not omniscient.... even though the Open Theists would beg to differ).

I see their reasoning, although I disagree with it. By the same reasoning, they should also be saying that Calvinists and Arminians do not worship the same God. From my perspective, there are MANY more crucial differences between how the Arminians view God and how the Calvinists view God than there are between how the Open Theists view God and the non-Open Theists view God.

What I do not understand is why, let's say a Calvinist would say that the Open Theists worship a different God, and would not say that the Arminians worship a different God? Or why a non-Calvinist/Arminian would say that the Open Theists worship a different God, but the Calvinists don't worship a different God?

It just doesn't make sense to me.

[Guest]

What I do not understand is why, let's say a Calvinist would say that the Open Theists worship a different God, and would not say that the Arminians worship a different God? Or why a non-Calvinist/Arminian would say that the Open Theists worship a different God, but the Calvinists don't worship a different God?

I think the reason for this is that both groups ( Calvinists and Arminians)

have similar views with respect to God's attributes.

[Guest]

What I do not understand is why, let's say a Calvinist would say that the Open Theists worship a different God, and would not say that the Arminians worship a different God? Or why a non-Calvinist/Arminian would say that the Open Theists worship a different God, but the Calvinists don't worship a different God?

I figure at this point I'll let God decide who's worshipping Him and who isn't. Probably means I'm worshipping a different God...

[Guest]

I think the reason for this is that both groups ( Calvinists and Arminians) have similar views with respect to God's attributes.

I would think God's Sovereignty to be one of His attributes, and they both have much different definitions of it.

Certainly there is a different definition of the love of God between the two camps.

God is gracious... there are definitely different definitions of in what ways He is gracious.

Why should the omniscience aspect of His character be more important to have down pat than any of these others?

[Guest]

I figure at this point I'll let God decide who's worshipping Him and who isn't. Probably means I'm worshipping a different God...

HA!!

[Guest]

Yeah, I hear you on this one. People throw out that phrase way too liberally. I try never to say that. It's just supposed to throw their opponent concerning a particular doctrine for a loop, and cause them to think .... "hey, I guess I'm so far out there with my view that I'm not even serving the God of the Bible." - But inevitably, it only alienates the ones they direct that comment to from being open to see things from their point of view.

I strongly disagree with Open Theism and Calvinism, but I know that many that believe that way are coming to that conclusion out of an honest approach. If God separates who knows the real Him from this hypothetical 'different god' simply on the basis of who's got the correct doctrine figured out, then I suppose I don't know the right God, because I don't believe that that's His way.

[Guest]

Yeah, I hear you on this one. People throw out that phrase way too liberally. I try never to say that. It's just supposed to throw their opponent concerning a particular doctrine for a loop, and cause them to think .... "hey, I guess I'm so far out there with my view that I'm not even serving the God of the Bible." - But inevitably, it only alienates the ones they direct that comment to from being open to see things from their point of view.

I strongly disagree with Open Theism and Calvinism, but I know that many that believe that way are coming to that conclusion out of an honest approach. If God separates who knows the real Him from this hypothetical 'different god' simply on the basis of who's got the correct doctrine figured out, then I suppose I don't know the right God, because I don't believe that that's His way.

Well said, Aaron

[Guest]

On Aug 7th Derek wrote:

They seem to label as heretics, those whom they percieve to belive in "another God". For some reason, these are usually open theists and those that don't explain the nature of the Godhead the same way.

I am not sure why Arminianism would not fall under this category as well (most Calvinists do not consider Arminianism to be heresy). From my discussions here, I would say that according to their criteria for "another God", those that hold to non-Calvinism are just as far away from their conception of God as the Open Theists and other alternative views.

My opinion is that these are different conceptions of the same God. The One True God who we are all trying to follow.

If I understand correctly, a "heretic" is not necessarily one who believes unorthodox teaching, but one who seeks to bring division into the body of Christ. A sectarian. I am not aware of any of the brothers who hold unorthodox doctrine being sectarian in any way.

I didn't see this post until today in a different thread. Seems like we were thinking along the same lines.