Arminian Confession of Faith?

[Guest]

Thanks Paidion,
My concern is over the use of the word "hell". What is hell? Is it Hades, Gehenna, the Lake of Fire, or just death in general?

I agree with your presentation as it seems to be the most common view, but there are those TV evangelist who say that Jesus suffered in hell to pay/atone for our sins. Even going on about how Jesus wrestled the keys of death and hades from Satan himself!

From my understanding, Jesus suffered in the flesh for our sins on the cross:

1Pe 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

I don't have a problem with Jesus proclaiming those who were dead. But proclaiming to those who had perished -vs- atoning for sin in hell something different. It seems that the ambiguity of the word "hell" leaves the door open to some, er...interesting possibilities.

[Guest]

On the "Jesus in hell" question, there was a thread several years ago here. It can be seen here: http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=25

[Guest]

My concern is over the use of the word "hell". What is hell? Is it Hades, Gehenna, the Lake of Fire, or just death in general?

A little word study of the English word "hell" shows that it's meaning was originally "a hidden place." In older novels, it has been written that lovers would seek a hell for their amorous advances.

When someone asks, "Where in hell is the book I was reading?" this original meaning is used. In other words he is asking in what hidden place his book is resting.

Today people talk about "hilling potatoes". The original was "helling potatoes, that is, hiding them in the soil from the sun and from animals which might eat them. And a "hill" of potatoes was originally called "a hell of potatoes" --- a hidden place where the potatoes may be found.


The Greek word for the same concept is "hades" and the Hebrew word is "sheol" as Steve pointed out. There are several places in scripture where these words can mean nothing other than the grave ---- a hidden place for one's body.

So even if Jesus didn't descend to the "hades" which was understood in his day by some Jews, and which Josephus described in some detail, and which Jesus used in His "Rich man and Lazarus" parable, He certainly went to "hell" in the sense of dying and going to the grave.

But praise God for raising Him to life!!!

[Guest]

Excerpted from Sheol/Hell/Gehenna @ philogos.org:

some teachings of the rabbis

JEWISH VIEWS OF GEHENNA

Gehenna is the name given by Jews to Hell. Rev. H. N. Adler, a Jewish Rabbi, says: "They do not teach endless retributive suffering. They hold that it is not conceivable that a God of mercy and justice would ordain infinite punishment for finite wrong-doing." Dr. Dentsch declares: "There is not a word in the Talmud that lends any support to that damnable dogma of endless torment." Dr. Dewes in his "Plea for Rational Translation," says that Gehenna is alluded to four or five times in the Mishna, thus: "The judgment of Gehenna is for twelve months;" "Gehenna is a day in which the impious shall be burnt." Bartolocci declares that "the Jews did not believe in a material fire, and thought that such fire as they did believe in would one day be put out." Rabbi Akiba, "the second Moses," said: "The duration of the punishment of the wicked in Gehenna is twelve months." Adyoth 3: 10. some rabbis said Gehenna only lasted from Passover to Pentecost. This was the prevalent conception. (Abridged from Excursus 5, in Canon Farrar's "Eternal Hope." He gives in a note these testimonies to prove that the Jews to whom Jesus spoke, did not regard Gehenna as of endless duration). Asarath Maamaroth, f. 35, 1: "There will hereafter be no Gehenna." Jalkuth Shimoni, f. 46, 1: "Gabriel and Michael will open the eight thousand gates of Gehenna, and let out Israelites and righteous Gentiles." A passage in Othoth, (attributed to R. Akiba) declares that Gabriel and Michael will open the forty thousand gates of Gehenna, and set free the damned, and in Emek Hammelech, f. 138, 4, we read: "The wicked stay in Gehenna till the resurrection, and then the Messiah, passing through it redeems them." See Stephelius' Rabbinical Literature.
(bold, mine)

This site has The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah by Alfred Edersheim (1825-1869, a Jewish scholar and convert to Christianity). Edersheim's work is invaluable for understanding the Jewish background and culture of the Bible.

I find it interesting that the rabbis appear to have been annihilationists. I'm not sure when all of these writings were written. Rabbi Akiba was one of the earliest rabbis who supported Simon Bar Kochba (or Shimon Bar Kosiba) and believed he was the Messiah. Bar Kochba was killed at Masada, if I'm not mistaken, in 135 AD.

Thanks,
Rick

[Guest]

I found this on another site, thought it was very good.

What is interesting about the SOF that follows is that it (in no particular order) embraces the Trinity, a personal Satan (rare), a high view of Scripture, and God's economy of providence. It spells out the story of Jesus' life and salient points of the gospel with Jesus' virgin birth, sinless life, his personal theandric (hypostatic) union, substitutional death, burial, resurrection, literal return as well as spelling out the conditional nature of Jesus' atonement in that God requires faith objectified in Jesus Christ in order to ratify the substitutional propitiation made on behalf of the world. It further presents God the Spirit's ministry to glorify the Son by means of grace to convict sinners, enable regeneration and belief, as well as move them to good works.

The SOF also seems to be a defense against heresy inside and outside of the camp by affirming an eternal heaven and hell, rejecting anybody who denies a bodily resurrection (along the lines of Bultinian de-mythers), Pelagianism (a common criticism from those not familiar with how grace is considered to work in Arminian theology), semi-Pelagianism (rejecting Finney's theology and with it any criticism that semi-Pelagianism is typical of Arminian theology) as well as giving no quarter for Open Theism to dwell within Arminian orthodoxy.

Overall not a bad SOF IMO.

1) We believe the Scriptures as originally given by God, both Old and New Testaments, to be the inspired Word of God, infallible, entirely trustworthy, and the supreme authority in all matters of faith and conduct.

2) We believe in one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, who possesses perfect and exhaustive knowledge of the past, present, and future, and who preserves, regulates, governs and directs all things so that nothing in the world happens without either his causation or permission. God is the author of good but not of evil. Yet even evil is governed by God in that God limits it and directs it to an end fitting with his overall plan and purpose.

3) We believe that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully human, having been conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He lived a sinless life, dying on the cross as a substitute and sacrifice for sinners. He arose bodily on the third day and ascended to the right hand of the Father. He will return personally and visibly at the end of the age to fully establish God's Kingdom.

4) We believe that part of the ministry of the Holy Spirit is to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ and, during this age, to convict sinners, enable them to believe, regenerate the believing sinner, and indwell, guide, instruct, and empower the believer for godly living and service.

5) We believe that humanity was created in the image of God but fell from its original sinless state through willful disobedience and Satan's deception, resulting in eternal condemnation and separation from God. In and of themselves and apart from the grace of God human beings can neither think, will, nor do anything good, including believe. But the prevenient grace of God prepares and enables sinners to receive the free gift of salvation offered in Christ and his gospel. Only through the grace of God can sinners believe and so be regenerated by the Holy Spirit unto salvation and spiritual life. It is also the grace of God that enables believers to continue in faith as well as good in thought, will, and deed, so that all good deeds or movements that can be conceived must be ascribed to the grace of God.

6) We believe that the shed blood of Jesus Christ and his resurrection were provided for the salvation of all people, but are effective only for those who believe. Christ's death and resurrection provide the only ground for justification and salvation, and only those who believe in Jesus Christ become born of the Holy Spirit and thus become children of God.

7) We believe that God’s saving grace is resistible, that election unto salvation is conditional on faith in Christ, and that persevering in faith is necessary for final salvation.

8) We believe in the bodily resurrection of the dead; of believers to everlasting blessedness and joy with the Lord; and of unbelievers to judgment and eternal punishment.