TK, I don't have much in the way of an answer for you...I just wanted to acknowledge your post and perhaps someone with more understanding than I will come along and give their input.
Spirit1st, I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to tell TK. Are you saying that his sister-in-law is sick because she has not been born again? And, are you saying that if she and her loved ones pray enough times, God can grant her healing, even if it's not his will to do so? And didn't you say before that it's a dangerous place to be, outside God's will? So does that mean that she might be in for something worse?
How Do You Pray for the Sick?
thanks michelle- i am definitely looking for some input with this, because I know that I am not the only one that struggles with this issue.
TK
TK
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)
TK,
I was thinking of this statement of James as I was reading through this thread, then it was mentioned by Spirit1st:
Hezekiah's prayer ultimately resulted in a bad outcome, but why should we think that would always be the case? Could there not be multiple possible outcomes, none of which would be bad? Could it not be that God is not so much determined that a sickness will result in a certain outcome, but that He is open to more than one outcome and the prayers of the saints have some influence on that?
What is God's will? Has He predetermined everything? If a young Christian man is seeking a wife, does God have one, and only one, particular wife in mind for him or is it God's will for him to have as a wife one of any number of Christian girls? Perhaps His will in this case is no more than opposition to being yoked together with an unbeliever. The young man's prayer in this case could be within God's will regarding several prospects.
It seems to me God highly values free-will. Perhaps in many cases God has, as His will, parameters set around any number of outcomes which would be satisfactory to Him. I am puzzled why we would assume that there would never be more than one particular outcome within God's will.
Perhaps I'm the one needing help here!
I was thinking of this statement of James as I was reading through this thread, then it was mentioned by Spirit1st:
This statement is meaningless if God's will has predetermined what will happen and is unchangeable. We have already seen demonstrated in the case of Hezekiah that God's will can be changed in response to prayer. As you mentioned some time ago, Jesus indicated the same in the story of the judge and the woman's repeated requests. Was not this a lesson in perservering in prayer, prayer which might change God's intention?Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Hezekiah's prayer ultimately resulted in a bad outcome, but why should we think that would always be the case? Could there not be multiple possible outcomes, none of which would be bad? Could it not be that God is not so much determined that a sickness will result in a certain outcome, but that He is open to more than one outcome and the prayers of the saints have some influence on that?
What is God's will? Has He predetermined everything? If a young Christian man is seeking a wife, does God have one, and only one, particular wife in mind for him or is it God's will for him to have as a wife one of any number of Christian girls? Perhaps His will in this case is no more than opposition to being yoked together with an unbeliever. The young man's prayer in this case could be within God's will regarding several prospects.
It seems to me God highly values free-will. Perhaps in many cases God has, as His will, parameters set around any number of outcomes which would be satisfactory to Him. I am puzzled why we would assume that there would never be more than one particular outcome within God's will.
Perhaps I'm the one needing help here!
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
A Berean
I know GOD has a perfect will and a permissive will!
I been in both HIS wills. But never again want to be in HIS permissive will . As i have learned we lose by accepting or desiring anything but HIS perfect will!
He will allow us to back mistakes, and will even give us, what is not the very best for us!
GOD wants us happy and well. We are the ones , that reject HIS living WORD or try to make things come out as we want them! And we suffer the results !
We need to have our lives in such a way , We can HEAR HIm and have a real Father and child relationship with HIM.
Other wise we just tend to lean to our understanding and lose out on MUCH!
I know if we are truly BORN of our SPIRIT and walk in and live in our Spirit? We will hear HIM very well!
GOD sees the beginning and end and knows best always!
We judge by the now!
He told Jonah He would destroy that city, then they repented and HE blessed the city. Jonah got mad.
life or death from this flesh is not the main thing. But heaven and hell is!
GOD is kind of like any man with children, HE wants the very best for them. We fail HIm , by NOT living by HIS Words!
He has proven over and over , HE wants the best for us and healed even those who did not accept HIM as LORD and MASTER.
I my self was healed before I was BORN AGAIN and had other miracles in my life!
Jas 5:17 Elijah was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
Jas 5:18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.
Of course with HEALING ? He has told us what to do! And I am sure we should repent of whatever caused the sickness, if indeed it came from sin???
I know we can sin in our minds and get the same affect as if we did the sin! Many forget and think they did nothing?
I agree with the post before mine! HOMERS POST!
I been in both HIS wills. But never again want to be in HIS permissive will . As i have learned we lose by accepting or desiring anything but HIS perfect will!
He will allow us to back mistakes, and will even give us, what is not the very best for us!
GOD wants us happy and well. We are the ones , that reject HIS living WORD or try to make things come out as we want them! And we suffer the results !
We need to have our lives in such a way , We can HEAR HIm and have a real Father and child relationship with HIM.
Other wise we just tend to lean to our understanding and lose out on MUCH!
I know if we are truly BORN of our SPIRIT and walk in and live in our Spirit? We will hear HIM very well!
GOD sees the beginning and end and knows best always!
We judge by the now!
He told Jonah He would destroy that city, then they repented and HE blessed the city. Jonah got mad.
life or death from this flesh is not the main thing. But heaven and hell is!
GOD is kind of like any man with children, HE wants the very best for them. We fail HIm , by NOT living by HIS Words!
He has proven over and over , HE wants the best for us and healed even those who did not accept HIM as LORD and MASTER.
I my self was healed before I was BORN AGAIN and had other miracles in my life!
Jas 5:17 Elijah was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
Jas 5:18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.
Of course with HEALING ? He has told us what to do! And I am sure we should repent of whatever caused the sickness, if indeed it came from sin???
I know we can sin in our minds and get the same affect as if we did the sin! Many forget and think they did nothing?
I agree with the post before mine! HOMERS POST!
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Homer:
I think God had a way for either contingency. If Adam has not sinned, I think he would have eaten from the tree of life, and matured, and been in a position that God would then have allowed him to eat from the tree of knowledge. And who knows what other wonderful plans God had in mind for man!
However, knowing every possible choice that man can make is not tantamount to knowing what any one of those choices will be. If the latter were possible, then the known choices would be made, and "free will" would be a mere farce.
In our time, we think "foreknowledge" is knowing that an event will occur before it happens. But sometimes human beings are said to have foreknowledge.If this is so, then all that God forenew He caused to happen.
You seem to think so. But how do you know?He knew before He created Adam that Adam would sin, did He not?
Yes, I agree that he made provision for sin before creation. For God was aware of all possible choices that anyone could possibly make. With regards to God's command to abstain from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam could either continue in obedience, or he could disobey.He had made provision for it before creation; "the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world". Is God then responsible for Adam's sin?
I think God had a way for either contingency. If Adam has not sinned, I think he would have eaten from the tree of life, and matured, and been in a position that God would then have allowed him to eat from the tree of knowledge. And who knows what other wonderful plans God had in mind for man!
However, knowing every possible choice that man can make is not tantamount to knowing what any one of those choices will be. If the latter were possible, then the known choices would be made, and "free will" would be a mere farce.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
That sounds about right to me!
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason: