Any Chance Jehovah's Witnesses Are Saved ?

[Guest]

Is there any chance that a typical JW could be considered a true believer and living life in a saved condition?

Most websites and discussions concerning JW's seem to get really distracted by the controversial interpretations of the Watchtower Society on what I would consider non-essential issues or seek to immediately discount JW's as unsaved because they are non-trinitarian.

I would define a true believer as one who accepts Jesus Christ as his or her Savior & Lord and seeks to please God by following the teachings of God's chosen King Jesus Christ. Anyone out there think that JW's might meet this definition of a true believer?

On the one hand, a typical JW when asked about Jesus Christ will say that Jesus died for all men. On the other hand, the Watchtower teachings tell JW's that Jesus died directly just for 144,000 individuals (of which about 8,000 are alive today). The remaining JW's can glom on to Jesus' saving ransom sacrifice and gain some hope of salvation by "associating" with these 8,000 "annointed" Christians (all of which are JW's). It's obviously not a very personal relationship with Jesus Christ for most JW's, but every "non-annointed" JW I have talked to still says that Jesus Christ died for him or her.

All JW's I have spoken with have shut off their independent thinking abilities, yet couldn't one legitimately argue that in their mind, Jesus is their Savior and they are seeking to please God by following the teachings of Jesus Christ as best as their restricted and organizationally controlled mindset will allow.

We obviously won't be the final judge, but I sure would appreciate some speculation from the forum on this topic.

Thank you.

[Guest]

Hey Vern, nice to be talking to you.

No, the JWits are not saved and here's the reason.

Words are actually meaningless, but the thoughts and ideas put INTO words DO have meaning. In other words, if I were to say 'Hand me a rock', but what I really meant was 'Hand me a stick of gum', then I shouldn't be surprised when I have a rock placed into my hand.
We have to define terms to see what each other is talking about.

When a JWit says 'Jesus', they are talking about the created arch-angel Micheal, who, according to them, is junior-partner in the creation of all other things, since he himself was created; "A" God, not "THE" God.

This is a different person than the Jesus of the bible, who is "THE" God. The one who created ALL things, since he himself was never created. Jesus claimed to be "I AM" of the bible, the one who spoke to Moses from the burning bush.

The question is: Which of these persons actually exist?

If I were to be waiting for the JWit Jesus to come to town and take me to the movies, I'd be waiting forever because the 'created, junior-partner in creation, arch-angel Micheal Jesus doesn't exist anywhere in order to do anything for me, or for that matter, anyone else.

But if he wanted to, God (read Jesus here), COULD envade time and space and take me to the movies and even zap us up a biggie-sized tub of buttered popcorn. This is because the Jesus who IS God DOES exist.

Likewise, a JWit trusting in salvation in an non-existant version of Jesus, will recieve nothing from nothing in terms of help from a figment of someone's imagination.

On the other hand, every man CAN have salvation offered by the creator of all things, the one who said he was "I AM" and proved it by laying down and picking his body back up again, just as he said he would do.

Jesus' opinion on who he is, is worth more than anyone else's opinion on who he is. (Example: "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.") Let's trust in him.

God bless you Vern.

[Guest]

I don't think God expects us to be theologians because if that were the case very few would be saved. Catholics would have a problem in that there communion prayer attributes salvation to Christ and the RCC church. How can Jesus really be the Lord of your life in that case when the RCC is a co-redemptor. All Paul says in Romans 10.9 is that Jesus s/b Lord and that you must believe he was raised from the dead. Anything mentioned about Jesus's origin? Anything mentioned about the trinity?

[Guest]

I would imagine some JW's are saved

Of course, they are saved in spite of the false doctrine of their institutional church, but hey...so are any of us that are part of an institutional church. I'll admit that they're doctrines are outside of orthodoxy, but that doesn't mean every JW agrees with those doctrines. Some probably have never been taught otherwise, but have responded positively to the true light that they have been given.

In the end we are not saved by our church affilation, but by whether we've been forgiven and become disciples.

[Guest]

No Idolaters shall inherit the kingdom of heaven,
I'd imagine that Jesus the Micheal angel savior god (with a little g) is far from the real historical and biblical Jesus. I'm not sure if they quote unquote "worship" him, but that is out and out demonic deception.

SoaringEagle

[Guest]

In my opinion, the teaching of JWs is a mixture of truth and error ---- just like any other group.

Our acceptance with God does not depend upon our theological or philosophical beliefs, but upon our repentance and submission to the Son of God, our appropriating the enabling grace of Christ, made available to us through His sacrifice on the cross.

We do not find in the Bible one instance of "accepting Christ as our personal saviour" being the criterion for being acceptable to God. So how can we use this as a test for whether JWs are "saved".

Even this statement made in this thread is misleading:

This is a different person than the Jesus of the bible, who is "THE" God. The one who created ALL things...

Can we reasonably accept this statement in the face of Jesus' prayer to His Father?

"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3 NASB

[Guest]

Paidion,

Neither do we find a "sinner's prayer" or anyone being told to pray at conversion. Interesting. Hum.............

[Guest]

Right, Homer.

I think the concept of "the sinner's prayer" comes from the passage where the publican in the temple cried out, "God be merciful to me, a sinner", and went away justified, whereas the self-righteous Pharisee didn't.

However, I think the cry of the publican indicated that he had repented --- had a change of mind and heart concerning how he was living, and that he had submitted himself to God. I don't think he only asked for mercy.

Today, many think that Christ died for the purpose of forgiving us or our past sin, and that a person can be saved from hell merely by asking for forgiveness, and then believing that he has been forgiven because of that simple act.

[Guest]

Nowadays i believe the "sinner's prayer" rerfers to Romans 10.9-10 but if you confess Jesus as Lord that means he is your master and you will follow him. Another words "abide in him."

[Guest]

This is an olllddd thread, but as I was rereading it, I remembered my eldest brother speaking of the visits a JW had had with him. My brother, a long-time Baptist preacher, and good thinker, argued her down in every point of doctrine she raised.

Finally, after many sessions, the woman said, "Okay. If you're right and I'm wrong, then how come you have never visited my even once with your 'truth', while I have visited you many times to bring you the truth which I believe?"

My brother looked down sheepishly. That was an argument which he was unable to handle.