If the elect are saved by God acting alone ...
and if saving faith is present only in those who have heard the good news ...
Is not God relying on some messenger to spread the good news (or relying on one to read the good news on their own)? Is not God working with the messenger? Is this not synergism?
Where have I gone off trail with this?
Is it really monergism ...
Is it really monergism ...
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
IMHO the messenger is merely the instrement. It is the Holy Spirit working through the messenger who saves. The messenger cannot take the credit. Monergism.
Thomas
Thomas
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
No messenger is required. Salvation may come directly from reading the Bible , for instance.
In my own case , it came from reading material found on the internet. No messenger was involved.
Thomas
In my own case , it came from reading material found on the internet. No messenger was involved.
Thomas
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Of course (as others have pointed out), "synergism" is a misnomer for the belief that the sinner must have faith in order to meet the qualifications for salvation. There is no "work" (the root meaning of "synergism") involved on the part of the believing sinner—just faith.
However, there is "activity" involved, whether that activity is reading the Bible, listening to an evangelist, observing a Christian's life, conversing with a believer, etc. It is not correct to say that the sinner does nothing at all in transitioning from darkness to light. Though the sinner must have a part in being converted, this says nothing about "works" in any sense that the Bible uses that word. Thus, the requirement that the sinner "hear" and "believe" (John 5:24) does not warrant the label "synergism."
Paul knew that human effort was a part of the conversion of the Corinthian Christians. He said, "I planted [an activity], and Apollos watered [another activity], but God gave the increase [humans do what they must, but the glory for the success of the enterprise belongs to God]" (1 Cor.3:6). Then he made a summary statement that has every right to be labeled "synergism"— "We are God's fellow workers" (1 Cor.3:9).
It is interesting that Calvinists acknowledge the need for this kind of synergism in the saving of sinners (i.e., the labor of the evangelist), but somehow believe that God's glory is compromised in seeing the need for any measure of cooperation from the sinner, and disdainfully call this idea "synergism."
However, there is "activity" involved, whether that activity is reading the Bible, listening to an evangelist, observing a Christian's life, conversing with a believer, etc. It is not correct to say that the sinner does nothing at all in transitioning from darkness to light. Though the sinner must have a part in being converted, this says nothing about "works" in any sense that the Bible uses that word. Thus, the requirement that the sinner "hear" and "believe" (John 5:24) does not warrant the label "synergism."
Paul knew that human effort was a part of the conversion of the Corinthian Christians. He said, "I planted [an activity], and Apollos watered [another activity], but God gave the increase [humans do what they must, but the glory for the success of the enterprise belongs to God]" (1 Cor.3:6). Then he made a summary statement that has every right to be labeled "synergism"— "We are God's fellow workers" (1 Cor.3:9).
It is interesting that Calvinists acknowledge the need for this kind of synergism in the saving of sinners (i.e., the labor of the evangelist), but somehow believe that God's glory is compromised in seeing the need for any measure of cooperation from the sinner, and disdainfully call this idea "synergism."
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
In Jesus,
Steve
Steve
Hi,Thomas wrote:No messenger is required. Salvation may come directly from reading the Bible , for instance.
In my own case , it came from reading material found on the internet. No messenger was involved.
Thomas
What about the people that wrote the bible or the material on the internet? In both instances, God employed the use of a "messenger".
God bless,
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Derek
Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
Psalm 20:7
Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
Psalm 20:7
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_anothersteve
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:30 pm
- Location: Toronto, Canada
Derek wrote
This is a good point. I met Christ simply reading a New Testament. I am mindful of the people who put that particular New Testament together for me to read. I wouldn't have even known to read the Bible if people throughout my life hadn't mentioned the importance of it.
Derek, I've missed you. How are you? I enjoy your input.What about the people that wrote the bible or the material on the internet? In both instances, God employed the use of a "messenger".
This is a good point. I met Christ simply reading a New Testament. I am mindful of the people who put that particular New Testament together for me to read. I wouldn't have even known to read the Bible if people throughout my life hadn't mentioned the importance of it.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Avatar...My daughter and I standing on a glass floor. well over 1000 feet above ground at the CN Tower in Toronto...the tiny green dots beside my left foot are trees.