Hello Sean
I wrote:1. Most of the Gentile converts Paul and Barnabas "got" on their first missional journey were not regular Gentiles; they were God-fearers. I'm not saying every single one of them were but, from Acts, it appears they were a majority; they at least "felt free" to go to a synagogue {Acts 13:46-48}.
You replied:
Not sure what this has to do with anything.
Many Christians mistakenly think that when Paul preached to Gentiles, it was always outside of the synagogues. This is why I mention it (or what it has to do with anything). His first Gentile converts on record were God-fearers, right out of the synagogue in Pisidian Anticoch.
If you go through Acts, if a city had a synagague, Paul always went there. I haven't counted the percentage of when this was the case, but would think it would be at least 80 percent of the time. And since the synagogues had God-fearers; Paul's Gentile converts came from the synagogues more often than is realized; perhaps as much 80 percent of them (?). Of course, there were times when Paul preached to "regular" Gentiles, such as in Athens.
You wrote:1. The question is, where did they meet after becoming Christians?
2. Did they still meet in the synagogues where the other Jews were still unbelievers?
3. Unless you think they all were converted, what do you think happened after Paul would speak in a synagogue?
1. In the synagogue, unless otherwise noted.
2. The Jewish-Christians were permitted to worhip in "Pharisee" synagogues after the Temple was destroyed till the mid-second century. In the first century, we don't know to what extent they were accepted in synagogues. Acts tells us of a few times when they were kicked out. There probably were some synagogues that had both believers and non-believers then also.
3. They may have continued to study about Jesus and made a decision later. This caused some to have to leave the synagogues (whether believers or not, depending on if the synagogue became messianic).
I wrote:3. God-fearers worshiped in the synagogues regularly...without becoming full Jewish-converts. (Also, the Court of the Gentiles, in the Temple, was "for" these same people).
You replied:
Until they became Christians, then they met in groups they called churches (Acts 15:41)
"Ekklesia" was used in the LXX describing Jews. Jesus used it with, "I will build my church" (though this probably is a translation, unless He spoke Greek, which is uncertain). In Acts, the Greek word for "synagogue" is used to describe pre-Christian or regular Jewish assemblies.
Paul in Corinth, Acts 18 (NIV)
1After this, Paul left Athens and went to Corinth. 2There he met a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had ordered all the Jews to leave Rome. Paul went to see them, 3and because he was a tentmaker as they were, he stayed and worked with them. 4Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.
5When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ. 6But when the Jews opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, "Your blood be on your own heads! I am clear of my responsibility. From now on I will go to the Gentiles."
7Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. 8Crispus, the synagogue ruler, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard him believed and were baptized.
Crispus, being chief synagogue ruler in Corinth, was the number one Jewish leader in the city. Back to Acts 18:
9One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: "Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent. 10For I am with you, and no one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many people in this city." 11So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
12While Gallio was proconsul of Achaia, the Jews made a united attack on Paul and brought him into court. 13"This man," they charged, "is persuading the people to worship God in ways contrary to the law."
14Just as Paul was about to speak, Gallio said to the Jews, "If you Jews were making a complaint about some misdemeanor or serious crime, it would be reasonable for me to listen to you. 15But since it involves questions about words and names and your own law—settle the matter yourselves. I will not be a judge of such things." 16So he had them ejected from the court. 17Then they all turned on Sosthenes the synagogue ruler and beat him in front of the court. But Gallio showed no concern whatever.
Wikipedia wrote:Sosthenes, meaning "safe in strength," was the chief ruler of the synagogue at Corinth, who, according to the New Testament, was seized and beaten by the mob in the presence of Gallio, the Roman governor, when he refused to proceed against Paul at the instigation of the Jews (Acts 18:12-17). The motives of this assault against Sosthenes are not recorded, nor is it mentioned whether it was made by Greeks or Romans. Some identify him with one whom Paul calls "Sosthenes our brother," a convert to the faith and co-author of the First Epistle to the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 1:1). It is not clear whether this identification is tenable. It has also been alleged that Sosthenes is a later name of Crispus, who is mentioned in Acts 18:8 and 1 Corinthians 1:14.
1 Corinthians never mentions the people meeting in synagogues or "being" a synagogue. God's people there are called "the church (ekklesia)". Undoubtedly, many Jewish and Gentile believers in Corinth came out of the synagogue, especially with the number one Jewish man of the city believing. If Sosthenes and Crispus are, indeed, the same person; we can see how wide his influence must have been.
I see what you are saying about the use of "church". But I don't think the word "church" was necessarily solely used to distinguish between synagogue from church (as they both mean essentially the same thing in LXX and with the example of Jesus' usage of church). Jewish-Christian synagogues existed from the earliest times. They would have said they assembled in "synagogues"...but were also members of the one, universal, "church". Other than this, I think we're splitting hairs....
You wrote:1. Do you think we should keep the Sabbath? (Or 10 commandments, if you prefer)
2. Re: the Gentiles who went to synagogue on Sabbaths, you wrote:
I didn't realize going to the synagogue on the seventh day was what God considered "keeping the Sabbath".
1. I say I "keep the Sabbath" when I go to church on the weekend. It might be on Saturday evening or Sunday morning and/or evening. I posted earlier that a Sunday evening is really a Monday evening by the Jewish calendar (which gets back to splitting hairs, imo). But I, myself, equate this with observing, and/or "keeping" and obeying the Fourth Commandment.
I consider myself bound to the 10 Commandments but don't interpret the Fourth Commandment legalistically. That is, I don't meet everyone's standards on this---just my own---according to my conscience and understanding of the Bible. I do not insist that everyone sees things my way.
In a sense, I can say I "replace" the actual Sabbath when I go to church on Sundays (which upsets Sabbatarian legalists). Others disagree that I can legitimately go to church on Saturdays (strict Lord's Day/Sunday-ists). To me, either day, it doesn't matter; and I won't get put under bondage by anyone! "Let every man be convinced in his own mind."
2. It was Paul's, the Jews', and the God-fearers' custom to go to synagogue on Sabbaths. How much of the entire law they "did" was decided by
who they were; Jews had to do the whole law; God-fearing Gentiles didn't have to, but wanted, to go to synagogue (which was what made them God-fearers). They "kept" (did, observed, practiced) the Fourth Commandment by the standards that were set for them on it: "Come if you want to." They could go to synagogue, go home, and have a ham sandwich....
You wrote:Act 15:36 Then after some days Paul said to Barnabas, "Let us now go back and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they are doing."
So did they go back to the synagogues?
In all of this, Paul (and Barnabas or Silas) were operating in two ways: (1) as Jewish(-Christian) missionaries who sought converts both inside and outside of synagogues and (2) as itinerant preachers, in the same manner as the disciples had been sent by Jesus.
Paul and Barnabas surely didn't go back to the synagogues they had either been kicked out of or left on purpose. Acts doesn't tell about the establishment of new messianic synagogues, though there undoubtedly were some time before and after Paul & Company came to town (as in Rome). In Rome we don't know if whole synagogues were converted or not (I don't anyway, but feel they could have been and probably were).
Paul's letters never say "to the synagogue in ____." He writes to individual churches in cities which are in the universal church. So, Paul calls these gatherings the "church(es)". However, that isn't to say there weren't messianic synagogues who continued to identify themselves as such: These existed till the 6th century. Who preached to them first, we don't know....
Rick
