The End is Near...

[Guest]

Soon, Near and At Hand...People have different ways of interpreting these terms. Some people say the meaning changes from use to use. I personally say that they don't.

What I am not doing is calling into question what time is to God. 1000 = 1 day. God is obviously outside the constrains of time.

But He was trying to convey a message to His people through the Holy Spirit through His Word to people who were bound by time.

And so here's my question…How would an eternal God who is outside of time convey to man who is bound by time, that something is literally “at hand?” Something that is within a literal 40 year time period?

WHAT WORDS WOULD GOD HAVE USED???

Pmike

[Guest]

I think Jesus wanted people of all times since he said those words to be prepared for his second coming:

So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. Matthew 24:44

He also said the Kingdom of God was at hand. And it did appear in the very days of Christ. For as he stood there with his disciples addressing the crowd, he said, "The Kingdom of God is among you." For a kingdom consists of a king and his subjects. And there among the crowd was King Jesus and his subjects, the disciples.

However, the mature form of the kingdom had not come in Jesus' day. Indeed it has not yet come in our own day.

... for I tell you that from now on I shall not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes. Luke 22:18

[Guest]

What I am not doing is calling into question what time is to God. 1000 = 1 day. God is obviously outside the constrains of time.

Sorry to pick at nits here, but I question whether we have to believe God is outside time. How, then, would we reconcile Job 1?

Job 1:6 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord,"

Job 2:1 "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord,"

I understand that the "thousand years as a day, a day as a thousand years" thing presents to us that time has no impact on God. And he's certainly outside space, and that would imply outside time. Or at least, outside *our* time, much like Narnia is outside Earth's time in the Chronicles.

However, all that being said, I think God is smart enough to know that he needs to communicate to us in language we can understand. Therefore, if he says "soon", it would mean soon to us. Otherwise he's basically communicating nothing.

[Guest]

I think God is smart enough to know that he needs to communicate to us in language we can understand. Therefore, if he says "soon", it would mean soon to us. Otherwise he's basically communicating nothing.

I agree Seth...But for some odd reason, I can't get anyone to see this as well. I ask a simple question, but for whatever reason people come up with all kinds of complicated answers that have nothing to do with my question. See Paidions responses as an example.

Pmike

[Guest]

THE ONLY THING I WANT TO KNOW IS, "WHAT WORDS WOULD GOD HAVE USED?"

Not what the words could mean to all generations of all time as an exhortation to holiness. But quite literally..."WHAT WORDS WOULD GOD HAVE USED?" if He REALLY wanted someone in the first century to know that he was coming within 40 years?

But nonetheless...I know I won't get an answer!!!

Oh Well...

[Guest]

He could have used the words "within 40 years" or he could have spoken through a prophet "Yet 40 years and Jerusalem will be destroyed".

He used a similar phraseology when he spoke through the prophet Jonah, "Yet 40 days and Ninevah will be destroyed." He wasn't limited to having to use the word "soon".

[Guest]

He could have used the words "within 40 years" or he could have spoken through a prophet "Yet 40 years and Jerusalem will be destroyed".

He used a similar phraseology when he spoke through the prophet Jonah, "Yet 40 days and Ninevah will be destroyed." He wasn't limited to having to use the word "soon".

"This generation" was a pretty good one... yes?

[Guest]

This generation" was a pretty good one... yes?

I would say "no". That phrase does not necessarily clue us in as to a time frame. Both lexicons and the context of the word indicates that in many instances "generation" refers to a people or race (those who have been generated). In this case, the reference is probably to the generation of Israelites who will not pass away until all these things are fulfilled.

"There are some standing here" is more convincing, and preterists believe it to be an absolute proof. I don't think it is. It is not that "there are some standing here who will not taste of death until all these things are fulfilled" but rather "there are some standing here who will not taste of death until they see the kingdom of God."

"Seeing the Kingdom of God" may mean "Experiencing the Kingdom of God". I cannot see experiencing the Kingdom of God as experiencing the events of 70 A.D. But Christ's disciples did experience the Kingdom of God on that special day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit fell upon them.

The "some standing here" who would not taste of death until they had experienced the Kingdom of God were his disciples. However this was said in the context of the feeding of the 5000. Although Jesus went apart by himself to pray and his disciples went with him, I think there were still many of the 5000 still standing around, who had never became disciples, who would die without experiencing the Kingdom of God.

[Guest]

I would say "no". That phrase does not necessarily clue us in as to a time frame. Both lexicons and the context of the word indicates that in many instances "generation" refers to a people or race (those who have been generated). In this case, the reference is probably to the generation of Israelites who will not pass away until all these things are fulfilled.

So, what Jesus was saying is: The Israelites WILL pass away after those things are fulfilled.

1. I thought God had a plan for them?
2. Does that destruction of them also include believing Israelites?

[Guest]

This generation" was a pretty good one... yes?

I would say "no". That phrase does not necessarily clue us in as to a time frame. Both lexicons and the context of the word indicates that in many instances "generation" refers to a people or race (those who have been generated). In this case, the reference is probably to the generation of Israelites who will not pass away until all these things are fulfilled.

When Jesus used "This generation" in Matthew 24, he was not speaking about a race of people, he was talking about that generation, in relation to time, not race.

The dispensational spin on this subject is very lacking in my opinion.