Question in 2 Thess 2:1-2 "Gathering together to Him.&q

Post by **_rvornberg** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:35 pm

Let me clarify again.

What did they believe about the gathering together??

They sure didn't believe what futurist are teaching in our day. They couldn't have.

Post by **_Rick_C** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:32 am

rvornberg,

You wrote:Rick_C, I hear what your saying, and sounds very simple... but it's pretty clear it's not that simple. How could they have thought they missed it?

2 Th 2:1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

Verse. 2 explains "why they thought they missed it."
And it is simple, as Paul explained....
False letters were in circulation (supposedly written by Paul and his companions). False reports were going around (supposedly originating from the same). And false prophesies were being given, saying "the Day of the Lord has (already) come."

In verse 3, Paul makes it real clear the Day of the Lord (rapture, etc.) will not happen till after the rebellion and the man of lawlessness is revealed.

I've posted 'verse 3' happened in 70AD (the man of lawlessness' revelation).
But I'm not sure it did, or who the man of lawlessness was, if it did indeed happen in 70AD. It could have been a Roman or a Jew. Some have identified this man with Titus. Others have seen him as one of the Jewish leaders in the Great War (as with the Pechawer link given earlier in the thread). I'm reluctant about the historicist view which identifies him as a Pope; which is pretty weak, imo. I won't go into that now other than to say: It seems as though Paul thought at least some of the Thessalonians could see the man of lawlessness's revelation (be alive when he came onto the scene). Paul doesn't actually say they would see his coming on the scene but it seems as if they could.

I'm still looking at anochria's article by Dr. Larry Pechawer, who sees the man of lawlessness as a rebellious Jew involved in the 70AD War. Though I'm undecided, I tend to think it was either one of the Jews or Titus. In other words, I still lean toward a 70AD fulfillment of the coming of the man of lawlessness.

If the "rebellion" Paul wrote about in verse 3 is about the Jewish Revolt (and their concurrent refusal to embrace Messiah and to "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" (to live at peace with Rome as the Lord Jesus taught them to); these would give more reasons to identify the man of lawlessness as a Jewish leader in the Great War. Jesus rigorously opposed Jewish political rebellion during his entire ministry...some things to think about....

You also wrote:What did they believe about the gathering together??
They sure didn't believe what futurist are teaching in our day. They couldn't have.

They believed the rapture was an event at the end of human history as we now know it: the final judgment of all also occurring at this same time/event. Also, at the rapture "the dead in Christ will rise first (bodily) " (which completely rules out full-preterism!),

And, yes, they couldn't have believed anything like "meeting the Lord in the air (and then) turning around and going back to heaven for seven years, then coming back." These ideas aren't in the text! (Paul's mind) and weren't any ideas at all till about 1830! Completely fabricated, made-up stuff!