Isaiah 2 (Temple?)

[Guest]

My name is Don. The original post for this thread came from my co-worker John Hunter. After I had completed much research on the "Temple Mount," as related to my futurist upbringing and beliefs, John asked me to take another look at how the word "temple" was used in the New Testament in relationship to eschatology. I was amazed to see (for the first time) every reference was realated to: Christ is the temple, we are the temple, and a heavenly temple. There was no mention of a temple built of Jewish hands AKA third temple in the N.T. Now, I was feeling assaulted. How dare the Bible not line up with the paradigm I was taught from youth. So, I went back to the Old Testament and read over 600 scriptures that mentioned the word "temple." Well, forget the assaulted thing. Now, I was just feeling sad. An "apparent" conflict was developing, as I saw the Old Testament reffering over and over again to a "physical" temple. I asked John to read the scripture (that started this thread). Could there be a conflict? Were scriptures written after the fall of the first temple and prior to the destruction of the second temple related to the second temple only? Could the "second coming" be the original ressurection of Christ (Well, depending on the actual dates within which Revelations was written i.e. pre or post 2nd temple destruction)? You can see the list of questions that have come up is a long list. Nuff said!
Long story made short, my anchor (The Word) is in question. While I believe God's word is truth, without fault, without conflict; now am left wondering, "What is the deal, Lord?" All I could do after this revelation of possible multiple views of Revelations was to pull out The Passion movie, and fall asleep to sounds my Lord paying the price for me. Amazing how I could find so much comfort in such horror.
Lastly, I came to the conclusion that, for the moment, I should focus on my present relationship with the God of all creation, not worry about the past or future. Having said that, I am going to Israel in March and when I stand in front of the Temple Mount, I would like to know if I am looking at the past, the future, or both.

I don't wish to enter into a debate on this subject. So, I'll take any answers just from this side of the screen.

Thanks,
bonologos

[Guest]

Thanks for raising these questions. I intend to answer this post, when I get a chance. Hopefully later today. Watch this space!

[Guest]

Before I get back to answering Steve and, er, Steve...Don's post raises some interesting questions that I myself was asking a few years ago. Instead of answering him in this thread, as it's getting quite long, I'm going to post a study on "What is the House of God?" in the Misc. Theological Topics section.

Look for it there.

Damon

[Guest]

bonologos,
You know I look at the Jews that had a hard time with Jesus sayings because they didn't seem to jive with what they were expecting. Like when Jesus asked, when the Messiah comes who's son will He be? And they replied David's son. Jesus responded then how come David called Him Lord? And they couldn't answer. They new the scriptures but didn't quite put it all together.

So when I see this I wonder just how well I've put everything together. Paul says we know in part. I don't expect to understand until our glorification. Until then we see only so well. I expect that once we know how it all works out we will be too busy praising and worshiping God to have worried about the details.

[Guest]

Hi Don,

As one who is in the process of coming out of dispensational doctrine, I truly resonate with your emotional response to the realization that what you have been taught may indeed be wrong.

Ironically, my journey out of dispensationalism began when I sought to solidify my postion through proof in the teachings of church histroy. I could recite all the "end times" verses in my sleep, yet had no evidence that Christians throughout church history (until the early 1800's) held this particular view. Not that we seek to validate a teaching based on church history alone, but I often fall back to the addage that "if it is true, it isn't new, and if it is new, it isn't true."

Don, I've grown up at the epicenter of dispensationalism, taught the pre-mill/rapture myself, and love and respect the men of God I know personally who hold to this view. When I first learnd of another way of seeing eschatology, I was at first angry. I had been taught that to think otherwise was to "not take the bible seriously or literally," and that those who do, "fall into the danger of being anti-Semitic."

Well, with further study, I became sad. I was saddened that I may have been wrong for a very long time. I was saddened that my teachers hadn't either studied or shared some of the historical evidence that much of Bible prophecy has already been fulfilled. I was saddened that an entire method of studying the Scriptures was crumbling under my feet. I was saddened when thinking that so much of the Christian fellowship I had previously enjoyed was based on a very likely misinterpretation of Scripture. I was saddend to realize that I had unwittingly taken away from what Christ did on the cross, by positing that He has a separate people, and the Jews and Gentiles who make up His church are another group. I was saddened by the silly books, movies, politics (that are often not-so-silly), of the those who held my views.

And then, I became excited. I became excited about seeing the Scriptures with a fresh lens, unobstructed by the pre-suppostions handed down to me. The Old Testament prophets came alive to me! The trustworthiness of Christ and His words is deepend, as I can look at verifiable history and see that what He said would happen, indeed happened. Verses that I have questioned for years in the classic pre-mil/rapture scheme are much clearer to me.

As I said, I am still in the process of coming out of the belief system that you are currently in. Yes, it is emotional. However, my hunger for the Scriptures has now been animated in a way that it hasn't been for a long time. Also, I look now for Jesus Christ, more than Anti-Christ. I pray the same for you.

A

[Guest]

thanks